Author Topic: Time to kill the huge maps  (Read 1687 times)

Offline TheRapier

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Time to kill the huge maps
« on: July 23, 2012, 08:01:31 PM »
Or perhaps I should subtitle that "or have a way of scaling them to match the number of players online".

I'd like to humbly suggest that the time of the big dumb (by this I mean non programmable to scaling) massive maps is OVER. I've been on several times on weekends where its been impossible to find fights or even opposing players for hours at a time. And this isn't at 4 am, its at 2-3 pm PDT when theoretically there should be sufficient numbers to find a fight. The problem is that the maps are so HUGE that even 200 or less players are like grains of sand on a basketball court. There may be a lot there but they are so spread out they can't find each other. Nothing kills a game faster than having no one to play with. Given the comments on country, I'd say this was a problem. 

I'm not talking about bringing back the rotating big map/little map system. That worked but kinda well sucked, although I think it would be better than the present situation.

The ideal system would collapse and expand playable area depending on number of players. The computation would be that each field supports X players (my uneducated guess is 1 field per 5 players per country). I believe this was floated before and the answer was that the way maps are created makes this difficult.

Obviously if the maps were numbered from the center, this would be easier. You could make fields active from #0 to #X as long as 1/3 was Rooks, 1/3 Bish, 1/3 Knights. I would recommend that all new maps be constructed this way. However since the number of fields is higgly piggly on most maps, another method is needed.

We CAN assume that contiguous numbers tend to be close together in proximity. That is number 1-10 or 220-230 tend to be somewhat close together. Obviously this won't always be true but it should get us close enough to make it work.  The code needs to find a continguous set of numbers where the distribution is 1/3 Rooks, 1/3 Bish, 1/3 Knight.

So the hypothetical computation is:
1. Between 100 and 150 players have been on for X minutes. To make the math easy, lets assume that the distribution is 1/3 Rooks, 1/3 Bish, 1/3 Knight. Based on the high end of 50 players per country, we need to have 10 fields for each country.
2. The code looks through field number until it can find a contiguous run of field numbers where there are 10 Rook bases, 10 Bish bases, 10 Knight bases. All other bases are marked inactive. If more players come in for X minutes, additional bases are added per the preset value.
3. When players take a base, one base is added to the side that lost one from a number closest to the contiguous set.

It won't work perfectly but it will address the current horrible situation. In some cases one or more bases may be off by themselves but since they won't be close to anything that can be attacked so nothing will be lost. It WILL concentrate the available players into a space where they can find each other. The code will have to accomodate for times when it can't reach a perfect 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 distribution by adding a country field with the number closest to the contiguous run. You could also make the number of fields 20% higher than calculated to cover these issues.

There is of course the option to do nothing, but I'll argue that making it so that people can actually PLAY ALL THE TIME is more valuable than a new plane that keeps them entertained for a weekend. If they are playing they are happy, if they can't play they get frustrated and ultimately leave. This set up will make the play experience more consistent over time and ultimately retain customers.

The kangaroo court is now in session . . .
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Offline Butcher

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Re: Time to kill the huge maps
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2012, 08:05:07 PM »
Slight problem, not everyone is looking for a fight - some rather swarm a base or simply not attack.

Believe me I love having a furball at 2-3pm its my down time in the afternoon, however after looking at the map its usually one sided and few players only vs the entire #s.
JG 52

Offline TheRapier

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Re: Time to kill the huge maps
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2012, 08:09:08 PM »
I get what you're saying Butcher and I've seen it. I think the numbers can be made large enough to make a sweet spot.

Unless you are saying that it's in the game's best interest to make HordeWarrior the only supported game play? :) Cause the other way, leaves the guys who are looking for a battle out.
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They thought it would be a disgrace to go forth in a group.  Each entered the forest at a point that he had chosen where there was no path and where it was darkest. La Queste de St G

Offline Butcher

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Re: Time to kill the huge maps
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2012, 08:16:05 PM »
But if you get rid of those huge maps, when it gets well over 400 players whats going to happen? sure it sucks when its down to 100 players total, but those big maps do spread some of the combat out.

What really sucks is to see 400 sheep crammed into a map that only fits 200, some of the fights get overwhelmingly large, but it happens.

What I do is if I don't see a fight brewing I up from a base with ample fuel and go fly over to enemy field and ring the dar, sometimes someone answers :D
JG 52

Offline Slash27

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Re: Time to kill the huge maps
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2012, 08:23:37 PM »
Well the Trinity map is an awful lay out and it stifles fights no matter the numbers. I'm not articulate enough to properly express my distain for that map. On the other hand FesterMA may be the best MA map ever created due it's design. So I don't think it's the size so much as how the map is laid out.

Does anyone have a pic of the old AKdesert map? (pizza)

Offline BigR

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Re: Time to kill the huge maps
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2012, 03:48:03 AM »
Maybe the solution is to have it like we did before with 2 arenas....One with a small map and one with a large map. This time though, only ever have one map up at a time. At a certain time of night, when the numbers get light, it will close the big arena, pausing the fight. At the same time, it will open the smaller arena, resuming the fight from the previous day. Also, when that switch does happen, reset the country switch timer. That way someone can switch to where the fights are, and since the entire map changes, the whole "DERRRR HES A SPYY" crybaby argument is invalid. 

Offline BigR

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Re: Time to kill the huge maps
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2012, 03:49:40 AM »
duplicate post. :bhead
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 03:51:19 AM by BigR »

Offline Greebo

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Re: Time to kill the huge maps
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2012, 04:03:20 AM »
I think it is more a question of map design than map size. The problem is more the number of available (i.e within 25 miles or with a SP) fields at the front line than the total number of fields. When you have front lines a dozen fields wide it scatters the players too much. When it is just 1 or 2 fields wide you get stagnation as in Trinity's start position. I reckon 4 to 6 available fields is the best compromise.

There is no reason a large map couldn't be designed with a front line 4 to 6 fields across. A ribbon of fields that width could snake across the terrain with big gaps between those ribbons.

Trinity could be improved by simply halving the terrain height (5 minute job involving changing a number in a text file). That would drop the border mountains from 15K+ to half that and would open up the front lines far more.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 04:05:44 AM by Greebo »

Offline SWrokit

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Re: Time to kill the huge maps
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2012, 04:07:04 AM »
Well the Trinity map is an awful lay out and it stifles fights no matter the numbers. I'm not articulate enough to properly express my distain for that map. On the other hand FesterMA may be the best MA map ever created due it's design. So I don't think it's the size so much as how the map is laid out.

Does anyone have a pic of the old AKdesert map? (pizza)

Oh how I miss that map  :D
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Offline MrMeanie

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Re: Time to kill the huge maps
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2012, 05:09:54 AM »
No, I my self like big map's.
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Offline icepac

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Re: Time to kill the huge maps
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2012, 07:37:54 AM »
I routinely fly spit XIV to both enemy HQ in a single sortie if a 163 doesn't come up at the first one I go to.

Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Time to kill the huge maps
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2012, 08:13:44 AM »
Well the Trinity map is an awful lay out and it stifles fights no matter the numbers. I'm not articulate enough to properly express my distain for that map. On the other hand FesterMA may be the best MA map ever created due it's design. So I don't think it's the size so much as how the map is laid out.

Does anyone have a pic of the old AKdesert map? (pizza)

Trinity is the only real problem map as far as large maps go.
Though with a couple minor alterations it could be improved significantly.

For example. adding a few islands with bases inbetween. would open things dramatically.

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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Time to kill the huge maps
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2012, 08:49:41 AM »
The issue is the people playing not the map.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Time to kill the huge maps
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2012, 09:02:50 AM »
The issue is the people playing not the map.

You can't "fix" people ;)
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Offline Midway

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Re: Time to kill the huge maps
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2012, 09:08:13 AM »
Well the Trinity map is an awful lay out and it stifles fights no matter the numbers. I'm not articulate enough to properly express my distain for that map. On the other hand FesterMA may be the best MA map ever created due it's design. So I don't think it's the size so much as how the map is laid out.

Does anyone have a pic of the old AKdesert map? (pizza)

Trinity can be easily improved by randomly assigning bases to chess pieces. :aok


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