410 vs Buffs tweek the balance?

[Vinkman]

So I spent most of the night Buff hunting in a 410 with the 50mm and observed two things: 

1) 50mm may be too good. 1 shot will kill any buff. I had a sortie tonight where I killed two groups of buffs flying together with 15 rounds. Every shot was from outside 1000 yrds. And the velocity is so high, and the trajectory so flat it's very easy to make 1000yrd shots. That was only my second sortie with the 50mm.

2) The pilot of the 410 is as fragile as an egg. 1 ping from 1500-1000 yards from the buff insta killed me 6-7 times tonight. I know the 410 has a lot of cockpit glass, but wasn't any of it bullet proof? I failed to get credit for about 7 buffs tonight that I blow the wing off of, only to be insta-killed before the buff crashed. (so don't get a kill recorded, but that's a different thread) 

It's like the 50mm is so good, they made the pilot extra easy to kill to give the buffs a chance. It must be frustrating for the buff pilots to have to face such a lethal weapon, and it's equally frustrating for the 410 pilots to be insta-killed by a single ping from 1500-1000yrds.

Perhaps the gun, and the frontal toughnes of the 410 could be tweeked to provide a bit more survivability for the both the 410 and the buffs.   


 

[Krusty]

Instant pilot kill from any aspect is seriously messed up. Should be more protected than that. Armored seat and headrest, aswell as an armored tub around the pilots -- I still found myself in the tower before I heard the ping from behind.

I managed to find a formation of bombers and popped 2 before he got out of the bombsight, and the first shot he fired I literally was back in the tower instantly -- no damage just instant tower. There should be forward armor somewhere on it. Doesn't appear to work.


Happens far too often, it seems.

[guncrasher]

I am not sure if airplanes had bullet proof glass back then.


semp

[Karnak]

I am not sure if airplanes had bullet proof glass back then.


semp

Most in AH have the front pane as bullet proof.

Historically, for example, Robert Stanford Tuck's Spitfire Mk II had the front pane replaced with bullet proof glass when he was covering the Dunkirk evacuation.  He took a 20mm round from a Bf110C in a headon the flight after it was added and would have died then and there had it not been added.

I do not know where the Me410 stands in that regard, but given its role, size and weight I'd be surprised if it weren't bullet proof in the front.

[zack1234]

Buffs are going to need Fighter escort now

I thought 410 were meant to fetle Bombers.

This would add a new side to the game close cobat support from fighters. <S>

Sqaud members and friends will have to work together to defend bombers.

[Paladin3]

Nerfing things for "balance" turns a sim into an arcade game. I am not for it for the sake of balance. I am for making the game as much of a simulation as possible. If it is really that dangerous maybe it should be pushed up on the ENY scale. Personally I think the fewer used planes in the war that barely got out there should be much lower in numbers encountered.

Think of it as a good time to learn to escort buffs to get them to the target.

Just my two cents.

[zack1234]

+1

[SmokinLoon]

I think the 50mm may be just what the Dr. ordered.

I hope this is an eye opener in that escort fighters are a GOOD thing.   

[Lusche]

Or, when long range strat runs on the city are getting more popular in the future again, we will see a significant increase in B-29 usage for that   

[Delirium]

No tweaking necessary, the fact a bomber destroyer is actually becoming effective in that role is a good thing.

Besides, most bombers guys fly so high that they might as well fly offline. If you want to bring a Me410 to that altitude, you might as well be rewarded for it.

[Vinkman]

No tweaking necessary, the fact a bomber destroyer is actually becoming effective in that role is a good thing.

Besides, most bombers guys fly so high that they might as well fly offline. If you want to bring a Me410 to that altitude, you might as well be rewarded for it.

It is an tedious process. the 410 with 100% fuel and the 50mm climbs at a bout 1.95K/minute. In level flight on military power it cruises at about 320mph. So you need to fly it like bomber. Take two sectors from where you are headed, and climb to about 20k and circle on station. It's faster up high, with a top speed of 360 at 20K. (with the big gun in the front). So you can chase down formation given enough time. I think I chased some B-24s last night for 45 minutes.

The comment about escorts is spot on. After the first 2 hours of hunting, the buffs all had escorts.  Many of the escort planes were flown by buff pilots I had shot down previously that night. They had realized the threat and adjusted.

And the threat is very significant. I came across two formations of B-17s at 20K. I pulled up behind them at 1500 yrds and opened fire. I killed all six buffs with a total of 15 rounds fired. Later DejaVu and I were both climbing out in 410s when we spotted two groups of Lancs coming in NOE to the base we just took off from. We dove and killed 5 of the 6 on the first pass, the other one got evasive, mis-dropped his bombs and got killed by the auto ack.

[Mister Fork]

From historical references, the BK 5 autocannon we have in Aces High is acurate. It is essentially a Panzer III cannon that was redesigned to fire a high velocity 50mm fragmentation shell. 

Trust me. If you take a 50mm shell in the tail of a B-17, the fragments will essentially shred everything right up to the nose gunner. 1 shot kills is not unrealsitic. This weapon took down 127 bombers during its limited use.

(reference: Stocker, Werner; Petrick, Peter (2007), Messerschmitt Me 210 / Me 410 Hornisse/ Hornet, Midland Publishing).

[Vinkman]

From historical references, the BK 5 autocannon we have in Aces High is acurate. It is essentially a Panzer III cannon that was redesigned to fire a high velocity 50mm fragmentation shell.  

Trust me. If you take a 50mm shell in the tail of a B-17, the fragments will essentially shred everything right up to the nose gunner. 1 shot kills is not unrealsitic. This weapon took down 127 bombers during its limited use.

(reference: Stocker, Werner; Petrick, Peter (2007), Messerschmitt Me 210 / Me 410 Hornisse/ Hornet, Midland Publishing).

Question: The 410 ammo for the 50mm is not a choice, meaning I can't choose AP or HE. It kills tanks like an AP, and kills planes like an HE. Is it modelled as both to make it more effective? or did the actual round perform both roles?  

[Alpo]

From historical references, the BK 5 autocannon we have in Aces High is acurate. It is essentially a Panzer III cannon that was redesigned to fire a high velocity 50mm fragmentation shell. 

Trust me. If you take a 50mm shell in the tail of a B-17, the fragments will essentially shred everything right up to the nose gunner. 1 shot kills is not unrealsitic. This weapon took down 127 bombers during its limited use.

(reference: Stocker, Werner; Petrick, Peter (2007), Messerschmitt Me 210 / Me 410 Hornisse/ Hornet, Midland Publishing).

Please stop quoting references... this is the HTC forum.  Conjecture and whines... THAT is the stuff forums are made of!

 

p.s.  Love floating around in a BK 5 packing 410 above Vbases which are under attack.  Low level buffs are sure to show up sooner or later 

[zack1234]

I will fly as fighter escort at a small charge of $1.50 a hour