87G eny?

[SmokinLoon]

You know more than we do?  

I wish.  

That waz a mispirnt.  

or maybe... HTC is going to release the Ju88G tank buster with the 88mm???  Poll maybe???

[Rich46yo]

Here Volron http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/killsin.php?playername=Volron&kcnt=6&selectTour=LWTour150&pindex=124

Thats what youv kiled with the 87G online. You havnt even killed a tank yet. Heres what Ive killed, playing only a few hours with it that I considered a total failure http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/killsin.php?playername=Rich54&kcnt=10&selectTour=LWTour150&pindex=124 I actually smoked one T-34 but died before getting credit.

Obviously youv killed nothing online. So again I ask does anyone know "definately" if the offline damage model is different then online? Also, and I havnt checked, is F3 available offline? The stats dont support the 87G as being the premier tank killer in the game

The only tank that really gives me any issue is the Tiger.  You have to have a pretty flat angle against it to do the job, but oh boy, will it do the job nicely when you do.  Of course, I've only tested this offline.  Haven't been lucky enough to run into one yet.  In offline testing, I find that the King Tiger is even easier to knock out than the Tiger.  In both cases, I attacked their flanks.  It took me 2 taps of the fire key to knock out the turret on a KT, coming in at a shallow angle.  3 passes total as on my second pass I hit the other side of the turret.  On the Tiger it took me 2 passes, one on each side.  The 1st pass I only landed one (between hull and turret), the other's ricocheted.  I came in with a little less angle against it than I did with the KT, but still fairly high.  On my 2nd pass, I was literally just feet from the ground, landed a nice shot between the top of the tracks and the skirt-ish bit.  Turret went flying.  All these shots that I made were around 500-400, which is about where I have my convergence set on my guns.  I usually only take 2 shots before breaking off for my next run.

Reason I find it easier to knock out the KT is because I don't have to have such a flat angle against it as I do with the Tiger.  Means more room for correction and evasion.

For the T-34's I just use the same spots on it that I did before when I used the 2D.  From behind and into the spot behind the turret.  If you come in at a angle to their sides, it'll knock them out real fast.  Just gotta watch out for their guns as you will be WELL within their gun elevation limit.


For me, the G-2 is now my Primary tank killer, which use to be the 2D.  The only thing that keeps throwing me off is that when I flew the 2D, I'd tap the "B" key for my shots.  Sometimes, I do that in the G-2....doesn't work out too well.

[Volron]

I'll go ahead and point out something that you obviously missed about my post...

The only tank that really gives me any issue is the Tiger.  You have to have a pretty flat angle against it to do the job, but oh boy, will it do the job nicely when you do.   Of course, I've only tested this offline.  Haven't been lucky enough to run into one yet.  In offline testing, I find that the King Tiger is even easier to knock out than the Tiger.  In both cases, I attacked their flanks.  It took me 2 taps of the fire key to knock out the turret on a KT, coming in at a shallow angle.  3 passes total as on my second pass I hit the other side of the turret.  On the Tiger it took me 2 passes, one on each side.  The 1st pass I only landed one (between hull and turret), the other's ricocheted.  I came in with a little less angle against it than I did with the KT, but still fairly high.  On my 2nd pass, I was literally just feet from the ground, landed a nice shot between the top of the tracks and the skirt-ish bit.  Turret went flying.  All these shots that I made were around 500-400, which is about where I have my convergence set on my guns.  I usually only take 2 shots before breaking off for my next run.

Reason I find it easier to knock out the KT is because I don't have to have such a flat angle against it as I do with the Tiger.  Means more room for correction and evasion.

For the T-34's I just use the same spots on it that I did before when I used the 2D.  From behind and into the spot behind the turret.  If you come in at a angle to their sides, it'll knock them out real fast.  Just gotta watch out for their guns as you will be WELL within their gun elevation limit.


For me, the G-2 is now my Primary tank killer, which use to be the 2D.  The only thing that keeps throwing me off is that when I flew the 2D, I'd tap the "B" key for my shots.  Sometimes, I do that in the G-2....doesn't work out too well.

Now people will probably click the link to my sorties in the G-2 and see, according to you and I'll quote, "Obviously youv killed nothing online.".  To make it easier though, I'll copy/paste the results from that link...


Late War Tour 150
Kills by Volron in a
Ju 87G-2 by model type
Model Type    Kills    Percent
LVTA2    1    16.667
LVTA4    1    16.667
P-51D    1    16.667
Panzer IV H    1    16.667
Wirbelwind    2    33.333
     6 Kills    

Late War Tour 150
Kills by Volron in a
Ju 87G-2 by player name
Player Name    Killed    Percent
ACCA    1    16.667
Burger    1    16.667
deadmann    2    33.333
FBvortex    1    16.667
Texeco    1    16.667
     6 Kills    

Copyright © 2012, HiTech Creations, Inc.
HiTech Creations, Inc.


I believe you also mentioned that, and I'll quote again, "You havnt even killed a tank yet.".  Yep...Panzer H was actually a Brewster.  For some reason the statistics screwed up and mislabeled it.  I'll have to ask HiTech to check that.


You see, I haven't been going out of my way to hunt tanks, or I would have more kills/deaths (probably more deaths ).  The times I have gone hunting, I keep running into some wirbel's or, if there ARE tanks, friendlies in the area grease them before I get there.  The 1 T-34 I encountered, I augered trying to hit because I pushed a bad setup.  Doesn't change the fact that, and I'll be sure it's nice and visible for you this time around; For me, the G-2 is now my primary tank killer.

Don't like it?  Too bad.

[Rich46yo]

I believe you also mentioned that, and I'll quote again, "You havnt even killed a tank yet.".  Yep...Panzer H was actually a Brewster.  For some reason the statistics screwed up and mislabeled it.  I'll have to ask HiTech to check that.

Lol, you do that. But if you are, actually, the only one the stats have done that to, then I'll give you the one tank.

You see, I haven't been going out of my way to hunt tanks, or I would have more kills/deaths (probably more deaths ).  The times I have gone hunting, I keep running into some wirbel's or, if there ARE tanks, friendlies in the area grease them before I get there.  The 1 T-34 I encountered, I augered trying to hit because I pushed a bad setup.  Doesn't change the fact that, and I'll be sure it's nice and visible for you this time around; For me, the G-2 is now my primary tank killer.

Well if you dont "go out of your way to hunt tanks" in the 87G, and "never actually killed one tank in the airplane", then why the four paragraphs about killing tanks in the 87G? Normally ones "primary tank killer would be a aircraft you actually killed a tank in". Think about it? Its like saying your best fighter vs fighter is the Spit after never having killed another fighter in it.

Don't like it?  Too bad.

I have no feelings either way. It was just a whole lot of typing as tho an expert with the air coming out the wrong way. But dont feel to bad. The tank hunting game is about over. With two maps and far more players you could almost always find tank hunting. Now? Well last night? I was able to find one P-4, that I killed. Now your team is lucky to even have a few tank spawns into airbases period. And your even luckier to actually find a tank. And your even luckier to survive long enough in these flying bathtubs to make an attack. And even luckier to survive the flak without F3 and with visibility cut so short. And if your real,real lucky the BK 3,7s will actualy kill something. Maybe its time for the left hand to play the right hand. Its double the monthly$ but at least you'll have tanks to "try" and kill.

The only tank that really gives me any issue is the Tiger.  You have to have a pretty flat angle against it to do the job, but oh boy, will it do the job nicely when you do.   Of course, I've only tested this offline.  Haven't been lucky enough to run into one yet.  In offline testing, I find that the King Tiger is even easier to knock out than the Tiger.  In both cases, I attacked their flanks.  It took me 2 taps of the fire key to knock out the turret on a KT, coming in at a shallow angle.  3 passes total as on my second pass I hit the other side of the turret.  On the Tiger it took me 2 passes, one on each side.  The 1st pass I only landed one (between hull and turret), the other's ricocheted.  I came in with a little less angle against it than I did with the KT, but still fairly high.  On my 2nd pass, I was literally just feet from the ground, landed a nice shot between the top of the tracks and the skirt-ish bit.  Turret went flying.  All these shots that I made were around 500-400, which is about where I have my convergence set on my guns.  I usually only take 2 shots before breaking off for my next run.

Reason I find it easier to knock out the KT is because I don't have to have such a flat angle against it as I do with the Tiger.  Means more room for correction and evasion.

For the T-34's I just use the same spots on it that I did before when I used the 2D.  From behind and into the spot behind the turret.  If you come in at a angle to their sides, it'll knock them out real fast.  Just gotta watch out for their guns as you will be WELL within their gun elevation limit.


For me, the G-2 is now my Primary tank killer, which use to be the 2D.  The only thing that keeps throwing me off is that when I flew the 2D, I'd tap the "B" key for my shots.  Sometimes, I do that in the G-2....doesn't work out too well. 

Ya just need to actually kill a tank with an aircraft in order to name it your "primary" Thats all Im saying.

[Rich46yo]

I saw enough. The reason the 87G is the "premier offline tank killer" is cause we have F3 offline. Which we'll never get online again. Online its a turd with wings.

So what was the point of even modeling the thing?

[Karnak]

I saw enough. The reason the 87G is the "premier offline tank killer" is cause we have F3 offline. Which we'll never get online again. Online its a turd with wings.

So what was the point of even modeling the thing?

How does F3 help kill tanks offline?

I'm serious, I do all my testing from inside the cockpit.

[Rich46yo]

How does F3 help kill tanks offline?

I'm serious, I do all my testing from inside the cockpit.

Easy, as you well must know. Being in F3 allows you to line up straight on the tank and then dive at a more vertical angle while having to use less rudder for correction.

Why else do you think tank kills dived online when F3 was taken away? They went, from tour 135's 6445 kills http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/pkd.php?type=0&selectTour=LWTour136&pindex=50 to 136's 2006 http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/pkd.php?type=0&selectTour=LWTour136&pindex=50.

Just take a look at percentage of tanks kills before and after F3 was taken.

[Tank-Ace]

Based on offline experience only, I would venture a guess that impact angle is the main culprit here.


The BK 3,7 should be far and away the best gun when hitting relatively flat. But at anything above 30 degrees (IIRC), penetration drops of dramatically, and the round has a tendancy to bounce.


Now how would penetration affect killing a tank? If it penetrates, shouldn't it be the same, you might ask? No. In AH, the damage done to a vehicle clearly decreases with the ammount of penetration leeway you had. That is to say, if you could have penetrated an extra 28mm of armor, you will do more damage than if you could have penetrated an extra 13mm of armor.

Look at the Panzer IV's 75mm vs the Panther's. Both projectiles are of comparable size, yet the Panther will one-shot tanks far more often.



So, either come in from almost right above them, or come in from a relatively flat angle.

[Rich46yo]

Let me guess. Your not using F3 offline either?

Based on offline experience only, I would venture a guess that impact angle is the main culprit here.


The BK 3,7 should be far and away the best gun when hitting relatively flat. But at anything above 30 degrees (IIRC), penetration drops of dramatically, and the round has a tendancy to bounce.


Now how would penetration affect killing a tank? If it penetrates, shouldn't it be the same, you might ask? No. In AH, the damage done to a vehicle clearly decreases with the ammount of penetration leeway you had. That is to say, if you could have penetrated an extra 28mm of armor, you will do more damage than if you could have penetrated an extra 13mm of armor.

Look at the Panzer IV's 75mm vs the Panther's. Both projectiles are of comparable size, yet the Panther will one-shot tanks far more often.



So, either come in from almost right above them, or come in from a relatively flat angle.

[Tank-Ace]

Let me guess. Your not using F3 offline either?

Nope. But just about the first 2 full years of playing the game, about the only thing I did was bomb.

[SmokinLoon]

Based on offline experience only, I would venture a guess that impact angle is the main culprit here.


The BK 3,7 should be far and away the best gun when hitting relatively flat. But at anything above 30 degrees (IIRC), penetration drops of dramatically, and the round has a tendancy to bounce.


Now how would penetration affect killing a tank? If it penetrates, shouldn't it be the same, you might ask? No. In AH, the damage done to a vehicle clearly decreases with the ammount of penetration leeway you had. That is to say, if you could have penetrated an extra 28mm of armor, you will do more damage than if you could have penetrated an extra 13mm of armor.

Look at the Panzer IV's 75mm vs the Panther's. Both projectiles are of comparable size, yet the Panther will one-shot tanks far more often.



So, either come in from almost right above them, or come in from a relatively flat angle.

The damage done to a tank once the projectile defeats the armor is based on 2 things: the weight of the projectile and the speed of which it performs the second round of whoop' axx.   

[Tank-Ace]

Thanks, was having trouble putting it into words. IDK why, but just couldn't think of how to phrase how the guns work in AH.


But yeah, if they're the same weight, the projectiile going faster after penetrating armor will do more damage. Although in my defense, I was technically correct. The faster projectile would be capable of penetrating more armor than the slower projectile, and hence the faster one would do more damage when firing at the same thickness of armor.

[Condor11]

Penetration is not a garentee of damage tho. As with modern ammo (as well as ww2), a round or shell loses a great deal of lethality if it simply passes in one side of an object and out the other. Especially when given the nature of a tank ( or other enclosed structure), a round is a great more lethal to something inhabitants if it penetrates one side, and either explodes inside, or splinters off.

Now back to the subject of the g2. I have never been good at killing tanks with plane cannons (in fact i dont recall ever destroying one outright with il2 or hurri. But in a couple of sorties with the g2 yesterday i managed to kill over half a dozen. The key is to come in tree top level, and with very little angle of attack, squeeze off a few rounds from d600 or less. I manage to take out several panzers, t34s and m4s in this nature. Just aim for broadside shots or rear ones and youll have little trouble finding effect with 4-6 rounds.

As purely a tank killer, these guns are much more effective then anything else in the plane set, but the plane is virtually target practice for enemy ftrs. Fly it with care, get used to dodging trees, and youll see how deadly it can be.

-covernow

[Tank-Ace]

True, however that doesn't nessicarily appear to be the case in AH. A 75mm (any of them) to the side of a Panzer IV at close range will kill it in one shot. But it will take multiple 37mm rounds from the M8 to kill one, regardless of hit location.


And I would say the IL-2 will still be the most effective tank killer, soley because it can pack around 100 rounds per gun for the 37mm.

[Condor11]

And I would say the IL-2 will still be the most effective tank killer, soley because it can pack around 100 rounds per gun for the 37mm.

Like i said it just seemed much easier to me. The il2 guns feel feeble, and the steep aoa usually find me hitting a tree