Why the high mountains on Trinity are a good thing

[Chalenge]

You are still better off looking for the large dar bars and going there. Hunting the way you are is going to find a few low cons to bounce and watch them run away. Thats about it. The mountains only act as fences for the action.

[Greebo]

There is never a shortage of alt monkeys in the MA with or without mountains. Most aren't up there to fight, but to pick lower players and then run away if things get even slightly risky. If you force people to climb to silly heights to clear mountains then they become more reluctant to give that alt up.

Trinity would be a lot more fun if two or three A1-style valleys were cut right through those mountains on each border and an airbase put in each one. Or even easier just halve the terrain's maximum altitude setting which is a 5 min job involving a change to a number in a text file. This would halve the alt of every piece of ground on the terrain, including those damn mountains.

[Crash Orange]

It just occurred to me that the high mountains on Trinity serve an additional useful purpose (besides protecting certain GV bases that is). 

Consider that typically AH air combat tends to favor low altitude aircraft, like the La-7.  That’s because on most maps, you can always dive to the deck.  However, over the Trinity mountains, you can’t do this; either you hit a mountain, or you dive into relatively narrow valley and are trapped.  So, the net effect is that a portion of the Trinity map forces you to stay high, and allows those aircraft which work better at high altitudes to use at least some of their capability.  Perhaps this terrain pattern should therefore be extended into other maps. 

What's absurd and counterproductive is the height of the mountains over their surroundings, not the absolute altitude. You'd have to go to Mars to find anything like the Trinity mountains because there's certainly nothing like them above water on this planet. Mt. Everest is at best 15,000 feet or so above its surroundings (because it sits on a plateau that's much higher than sea level.) Some of the Trinity mountains are 30,000 feet or more above their surroundings. Some of them are upwards of 40,000 feet in absolute altitude. Given that almost all the surrounding air bases are under 3k this means ridiculous climbs to fight over the mountains, which is why no one does it.

A map that was better for high-altitude planes would be great, but Trinity ain't it. The way to do it would be to make the base level of the map, or at least part of the map, 10,000 feet, with bases between 10k and 13k, and then put 10-15k mountains on top of that. Planes would be fighting at 20k without having to climb 20k to get there. Diving to the deck would still leave low-alt specialist planes gasping for breath at 10-12k.

Yes, it would be unrealistic on the surface since there was no air war over Tibet, but what you'd get would be a hard floor in place of considerations in the real war that are absent from this game and that pushed aerial combat higher than there's any real reason for it to go in AH.

Or, as Snailman alluded to, you could put strats that are worth hitting 200 miles behind the line. It would be awesome to see formations of 60 or more B-17s plus escorts on deep penetration raids at 25k, but the way the game is now there's no reward for doing so other than the pure fun of it.

[Scca]

There is never a shortage of alt monkeys in the MA with or without mountains. Most aren't up there to fight, but to pick lower players and then run away if things get even slightly risky. If you force people to climb to silly heights to clear mountains then they become more reluctant to give that alt up.

These are few and far between, some even commented on this thread already. 

I too dislike the mountains.  It always ends up that one side gets ganged by two sides because it's more "fun" to not have to work and climb over the mountain. 

[Shuffler]

When you fly high you should run into icing sometimes.


Carry on............

[TDeacon]

You are still better off looking for the large dar bars and going there. Hunting the way you are is going to find a few low cons to bounce and watch them run away. Thats about it. The mountains only act as fences for the action.

"Low cons"??  Over the mountains cons are high, as if they weren't they would be underground...  Also, in may instances, they can't dive away well, for the same reason.  If one wanted to find low cons to bounce, that could be done anywhere.  The problem is that the resulting fights occur low and get lower, thus favoring planes which operate down there. 

MH

[TDeacon]

What's absurd and counterproductive is the height of the mountains over their surroundings, not the absolute altitude. You'd have to go to Mars to find anything like the Trinity mountains because there's certainly nothing like them above water on this planet. Mt. Everest is at best 15,000 feet or so above its surroundings (because it sits on a plateau that's much higher than sea level.) Some of the Trinity mountains are 30,000 feet or more above their surroundings. Some of them are upwards of 40,000 feet in absolute altitude. Given that almost all the surrounding air bases are under 3k this means ridiculous climbs to fight over the mountains, which is why no one does it.

A map that was better for high-altitude planes would be great, but Trinity ain't it. The way to do it would be to make the base level of the map, or at least part of the map, 10,000 feet, with bases between 10k and 13k, and then put 10-15k mountains on top of that. Planes would be fighting at 20k without having to climb 20k to get there. Diving to the deck would still leave low-alt specialist planes gasping for breath at 10-12k.

Yes, it would be unrealistic on the surface since there was no air war over Tibet, but what you'd get would be a hard floor in place of considerations in the real war that are absent from this game and that pushed aerial combat higher than there's any real reason for it to go in AH.

Or, as Snailman alluded to, you could put strats that are worth hitting 200 miles behind the line. It would be awesome to see formations of 60 or more B-17s plus escorts on deep penetration raids at 25k, but the way the game is now there's no reward for doing so other than the pure fun of it.

You need to recalibrate your altimeters.  Most mountains are below 20K, and those which aren't can be avoided.  I do agree with your "Tibet" map idea, however.  Furthermore, not all of the map needs to be that high.  Finding the best mix of base altitudes would be the trick.   

MH

[Babalonian]

"Low cons"??  Over the mountains cons are high, as if they weren't they would be underground...  Also, in may instances, they can't dive away well, for the same reason.  If one wanted to find low cons to bounce, that could be done anywhere.  The problem is that the resulting fights occur low and get lower, thus favoring planes which operate down there. 

MH

TDeacon, everyone knows over thosem ountains when the enemy dives to run they dive away from the mountains or into the gorges within them, most often down "the other side", wich equates into reclimbing over the mountains in unfriendly territory with enemy a/c passing above you high enough to clear the mountains.

Stop playing the idiot and thinking in only momentary frames/instances to the community in a game where the average speed is 200knts and the average participant/combatant is smarter than your pet girble.


In fact you jstu contradicted yourself, how can one find low cons anywhereo n trinity with all those mountains, where "Over the mountains cons are high, as if they weren't they would be underground...".

This thread comes off like a troll, the cons/protesters for the map always seem to outweigh the pros/supporters in numbers and teh content of their arguements,  but I would like to thank you for helping the pitchfork and torch trinity movement, even if you're sincerely trying to improove its popularity.

[guncrasher]

tddeacon doesnt even fly airplanes anymore as per his own statement.

semp

[Noir]

and the damn map is back on...brace yourself for a week of boredom...

How many threads will it take for it to be removed of rotation?

[Greebo]

The 10K+ Tibet map wouldn't work as one of the rules for MA maps is no airbases over 5K. The reason for this is that a fully loaded buff would not be able to get off the runway above this alt.

[Noir]

The 10K+ Tibet map wouldn't work as one of the rules for MA maps is no airbases over 5K. The reason for this is that a fully loaded buff would not be able to get off the runway above this alt.

well if that's the case a few active maps are over the limits

[TDeacon]

The 10K+ Tibet map wouldn't work as one of the rules for MA maps is no airbases over 5K. The reason for this is that a fully loaded buff would not be able to get off the runway above this alt.

Well, HTC could change the rules, if convinced to do so.  Parts of the map could be lower, and the rest higher, with the latter encouraging higher-altitude combat.  There is no logical reason (game play or otherwise) why all buffs need to be able to take off from all bases.  

MH

[TDeacon]

TDeacon, everyone knows over thosem ountains when the enemy dives to run they dive away from the mountains or into the gorges within them, most often down "the other side", wich equates into reclimbing over the mountains in unfriendly territory with enemy a/c passing above you high enough to clear the mountains.

Stop playing the idiot and thinking in only momentary frames/instances to the community in a game where the average speed is 200knts and the average participant/combatant is smarter than your pet girble.


In fact you jstu contradicted yourself, how can one find low cons anywhereo n trinity with all those mountains, where "Over the mountains cons are high, as if they weren't they would be underground...".

This thread comes off like a troll, the cons/protesters for the map always seem to outweigh the pros/supporters in numbers and teh content of their arguements,  but I would like to thank you for helping the pitchfork and torch trinity movement, even if you're sincerely trying to improove its popularity.

Here we see yet again your propensity for responding to differing opinions with personal insults and innuendo instead of logic.  FYI, once a person turns a thread in that direction, they have no grounds for complaining when others respond in a similar vein. 

So, my post which you quote is a response to a previous post suggesting that I like the high Trinity mountains because I am looking for “low cons” to bounce.  My response points out that this assertion doesn’t make sense, if only for physical reasons.  This should be obvious to anyone with basic English reading comprehension skills.  Read it again. 

MH

[guncrasher]

Here we see yet again your propensity for responding to differing opinions with personal insults and innuendo instead of logic.  FYI, once a person turns a thread in that direction, they have no grounds for complaining when others respond in a similar vein. 

So, my post which you quote is a response to a previous post suggesting that I like the high Trinity mountains because I am looking for “low cons” to bounce.  My response points out that this assertion doesn’t make sense, if only for physical reasons.  This should be obvious to anyone with basic English reading comprehension skills.  Read it again. 

MH

per your own quote, you dont fly airplanes much as your computer cant handle it.  so why post a thread indicating that trinity is good when you dont fly there?  we have all seen trinity and there's hardly a fight  at altitude as most players will stick to the canyons around 135.  so dont even go with the mention that you got lots of kills over the mountains.  most of us dont spend the 15 or 20 minutes to go to 20 to 25k just to go over the mountains to a base that nobody will up from 99.99% of the time as the only thing nearby is gv bases on the east side.  unless of course you fly right over 135 otw to the other side of the mountains to find those who are going thru the canyons otw to 135, which is most likely how you got most of your "high altitude" kills.

so unless I am wrong please feel free to explain which base you took off from and what direction you took where most of your fights happened.


semp