150 octane fuel

[Debrody]

Thats what im talking about, Guppy. You are speaking about the spit9 as it were an 1942 bird (as AH's spit9 is) yet the 16 had an improved engine.
So, the majority of the spit9s were closer to AH's spit8s except the extra fuel tanks, right?

Noir: so all the late allied birds get a 20mph/500ftpm boost for adding an other 190a8 and making a minor non-performance adjustment on the dora? No, thank you, no dirty business for you!  

Edit: to Guppy: now both the Luft and the Allies have advantages on each other, with 150 octane, the luft would be totally without any chance. Couse i cant fight against a 370mph spitfire, im too unskilled to catch it running. Thats what Titan is speaking about. So please, chill, cause your argument is invalid here.

Edit2: Nuke: dont be silly and selfish. Enough selfish stuff happened in 1922, if you know what i am talking about. hint hint

[Guppy35]

How bout giving them a fighting chance? 

 Now you are being silly.  Please tell me when the cartoon Luftwaffe hasn't had a fighting chance?

[Noir]

Noir: so all the late allied birds get a 20mph/500ftpm boost for adding an other 190a8 and making a minor non-performance adjustment on the dora? No, thank you, no dirty business for you! 

Well that's all I can do for you, not my fault if germany lost the war! 

[Guppy35]

Thats what im talking about, Guppy. You are speaking about the spit9 as it were an 1942 bird (as AH's spit9 is) yet the 16 had an improved engine.
So, the majority of the spit9s were closer to AH's spit8s except the extra fuel tanks, right?

Noir: so all the late allied birds get a 20mph/500ftpm boost for adding an other 190a8 and making a minor non-performance adjustment on the dora? No, thank you, no dirty business for you! 

The majority of Spit IXs were LFIX which is all the XVI is.  It just has the American produced version of the same engine as theLFIX.  Put an XVI engine in an IX and it's an XVI.  Same airframe, same performance.  LFIX was a 43 introduction.

[Karnak]

debrody,

The "Spitfire MK XVI" in AH is actually a Spitfire LF.Mk IXe.  It has a Merlin 66 in it, not a Merlin 266 which had a slightly higher critical altitude.  Check the Mk XVI's critical altitude compared to the Mk VIII's Merlin 66's in AH:


The most common Spitfire Mk IX was probably the Spitfire LF.Mk IX with the universal wing, but the only difference we'd see in AH is the lack of wing ordnance and having four .303s instead of two .50s alongside the cannons.  The wing tips could be changed out in about 30 minutes by ground crew.

[Wmaker]

If we required pilots in aces high to be tasked with managing an engine, most wouldn't know how to get anything out of 150 octane anyway.

How exactly?

You pull the throttle "through the gate" and watch your MAP-gauge to keep the MAP within the allovable setting when 150 octane fuel is used?

What is hard about that?

[Debrody]

Exuse me Karnak, i cant see anything on that graph... im blind tho.
My knowledge about the allied birds is very short tho, i accept that you are right.

[icepac]

How exactly?

You pull the throttle "through the gate" and watch your MAP-gauge to keep the MAP within the allovable setting when 150 octane fuel is used?

What is hard about that?

LOL if you think that's all the engine management needed.

[bustr]

Seems the ETO P51D operated on 150 Grade.

Deliveries of Grade 100/150 aviation fuel to Eighth Air Force fighter airfields commenced in June 1944. 8 9 10  This coincidentally occured about the same time as the introduction of the P-51D into service.   Even though the USAAF had cleared the P-51 for 75" Hg., the Eighth Air Force chose 72" Hg as the P-51's War Emergency Rating. 11 12   Apparently there is more to the story, however, as Encounter Reports demonstrate that 75" Hg was used operationally. 13 14

By January 1945, fourteen of the Eighth Air Force's fifteen Fighter Groups were operating Mustangs, the sole holdout being the 56th FG in P-47's. Maintenance difficulties with spark plug fouling led to the decision to convert all fighter groups to 100/150 grade fuel reformulated with increased levels of ethylene dibromide (1.5T). Deliveries of PEP, as the new 100/150 blend was called, began to be issued to all fighter groups in February 1945. The use of PEP, however, cooroded the valve seats of the V-1650 at an unacceptable level. Consequently, the standard 100/150 (1T) grade fuel was reverted to by the end of March 1945. 15 16   The Eighth Air Force also had hoped to supply the 352nd and 361st Fighter Groups based on the continent with 100/150 grade fuel. This was deemed impractical from a logistical viewpoint, although admittedly such difficulties did not prevent the RAF's 2nd TAF from being supplied with 100/150 grade fuel. 17

Those RAF Mustang units tasked with defending against the V-1 were modified to operated at +25 lbs./sq.in. - the equivalent of 80" Hg. 21 22   On 24 August 1944, by which time the V-1 threat had subsided, the Ministry of Aircraft Production directed Rolls Royce: "all Packard Merlin V.1650-7 engines to be modified to operate at 25 lbs. boost". 23   Raising the WER rating from 67" Hg to 80" Hg increased Sea Level speed by 30 mph. 24   On 18 September 1944 ADGB noted, that with respect to the Mustang III/Packard Merlin 1650-7, "A total of over 7,000 hours have been flown at a maximum boost pressure of + 25 lbs./sq. in.". 25   The RAF's Mustang Pilot's Notes gives the Combat Engine Limitation as "81 ins. boost for 5 minutes when using 150 grade fuel". 26   Combat Reports show +25 lbs was used operationally over the continent by UK based Mustangs of ADGB. 27 

Encounter Reports noting high boost obtained with 150 grade fuel

1st Lt. Raymond R. Flowers, 1 November 1944, 20th FG “I closed steadily pulling over 70 inches.”
 
1st Lt. James F. Hinchey, 14 November 1944, 353rd FG “For fifteen minutes at 74” hg and indicating 600 mph…” 

2nd Lt. Thomas R. Drybrough, 27 November 1944, 353rd FG "I had been pulling over 70" H.G. and was indicating about 425 MPH at approximately 14,000 feet."
 
1st Lt. Charles E. Yeager, 13 September 1944, 357th FG “I rolled over and was pulling around 70”Hg.”
 
Capt. Charles E. Yeager, 6 November 1944, 357th FG “I got behind him and was pulling 75” Hg.”
 
Lt. Col. Roy A. Webb, 25 June 1944, 361st FG “I closed very slowly and pulled as much as 70 inches of mercury.”
 
1st Lt. Thomas H. Hall, 15 August 1944, 364th FG “I put on 70 inches and gradually pulled up on them.”
 
Lt. Col. Kyle L. Riddle, 24 December 1944, 479th FG "I pulled about 70" to 75" mercury..." 

F/Lt Pearson, 5 April 45, 65 Squadron "Opening up to 70 inches I overtook him..."
 
F/Lt. G. M. Davis, 23 March 1945, 129 Squadron "Opened up to +25 lbs of boost 3,000 revs and dived down to engage."
---------------------------------------------

Summary of RAF 100\150 use.
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/150grade/appendixa.pdf
 

[save]

I would like to have a list of all fighter / buff performance much like soda's table, and I'  willing to put effort and time in it.

I've seen buffs do incredible stunts with them,and I do not know if their gunners stop shooting at different G's or same , and what the limit is


Also i would like to test all  our planes with different loadout/fuel settings. maybe someone can find a formula to find out speed/turn without testing IRL.

 I know some take as little as 50%  fuel in 190A's 2*20mm and to compete with the late plane set we have in Main arena, and understandably some Pony pilots don't bring full bag
since they have endurance to stay "up there" for a very long time.

save do you truly believe that a lanc with full ord can out turn a 190A8??     let's not get hysterical here. 

I'm more than willing to go to the TA and experiment this with you.   

[Guppy35]

All this info has already been gone over before.  I'm still not seeing how implementing it into the game is worth the time and effort.  And that's saying it as one who has a Mustang group in the upcoming scenario and one who has been flying the 51 lately int the MA. 

I would rather have 108 gallon DTs for the scenario

[Wmaker]

LOL if you think that's all the engine management needed.

As far as 150 octane fuel goes, yes. It doesn't change the engine management itself really. It simply enables the engine run at higher boost which generates more horsepower provided that the supercharger is able to deliver the air needed at the altitude in question.

Only real difference in engine management would be the different value which the boost gauge would be showing as the throttle is pushed to max. allowable power.

How exactly wouldn't people in AH know how to take advantage of the higher boost/power output??

It is true that most here wouldn't know how to start a real WWII fighter but the engine management doesn't change with the grade of fuel. They wouldn't know how to start one no matter which fuel it has in its' tanks and none of this is applicable to AH anyway.

[bustr]

If you ever look at the manifold and boost gauges for the affected aircraft, they can register the numbers.

70-75HG
25lbs

I will venture for Hitech it's very likely changing numbers in a formula.

The P51D flew it's combat career on 150. By 11\44 british units operating on the continent were using 150. Parity is not achived by forceing them to operate with the fuel they didn't historicly burn while in the same skys as the aircraft they were upgraded to 150 to defeat. Otherwise perk the K4. These aircraft burned 150 to give them the ability to fight the K4, chase the D9, and stand a chance of diving after a 262 with parity. These three Uber aircraft emerged into a war with their nemisis burning 150 octane fuel.

WEP or speed is the whole reason the SpitXIV, F4U-4, TempestV, 163 and 262 are perked. (The CHog is a tactical HO addict's nuisancemobile.) We have other none perked aircraft with powerful gun configurations that just don't have the WEP or speed. Thier powerful guns don't destabalise the arena even in missions with 20+ of them. It's just the ones with the monsterous WEP or speed and cannons. On top of that has anyone ever considered in scenarios you are not getting Historical performance from the P51D becasue it's not running on 150 octane?

Wonder how many of you over the years might have caught that K4 on the zoom climb with another 500ft\sec at 75HG? Or just a littel bit more Umpfh getting that nose around up there in that thin cold air with 1-2 notches of flaps to get a peice of a con going by and enough damage to put it out of the fight. Think about it. What would the P47M do on 150 octane? You are flying the P51D limited to 67HG which was a state side limitation due to 130 Grade fuel. In July 1944 when the P51D began operations over the continent they were fueled with 150 Grade and 72-75HG. Or all these years in all of these high altitiude escort scenario no one told you your P51D was neutered where it needed all the historicly accurate horsepower it was capable of?

Here are the real escorts reports:

Encounter Reports noting high boost obtained with 150 grade fuel

1st Lt. Raymond R. Flowers, 1 November 1944, 20th FG “I closed steadily pulling over 70 inches.”
 
1st Lt. James F. Hinchey, 14 November 1944, 353rd FG “For fifteen minutes at 74” hg and indicating 600 mph…” 

2nd Lt. Thomas R. Drybrough, 27 November 1944, 353rd FG "I had been pulling over 70" H.G. and was indicating about 425 MPH at approximately 14,000 feet."
 
1st Lt. Charles E. Yeager, 13 September 1944, 357th FG “I rolled over and was pulling around 70”Hg.”
 
Capt. Charles E. Yeager, 6 November 1944, 357th FG “I got behind him and was pulling 75” Hg.”
 
Lt. Col. Roy A. Webb, 25 June 1944, 361st FG “I closed very slowly and pulled as much as 70 inches of mercury.”
 
1st Lt. Thomas H. Hall, 15 August 1944, 364th FG “I put on 70 inches and gradually pulled up on them.”
 
Lt. Col. Kyle L. Riddle, 24 December 1944, 479th FG "I pulled about 70" to 75" mercury..." 

F/Lt Pearson, 5 April 45, 65 Squadron "Opening up to 70 inches I overtook him..."

[Halo46]

I know I am a certified nobody on the boards and in game so I am not issued an opinion or anything, but if we just perk the BBS this wouldn't be such an issue would it? 

Sorry, I haven't been to bed yet reading all of this...   

[Butcher]

Were not getting 150 octane fuel, chill kids, its a worthy wish but won't happen.