150 octane fuel

[Guppy35]

My mustang isnt fast enough!!
My spit outturns everything but i want it to outrun everything too!!

Sometimes its just cant be good enough.
Oh and wi ahr teh Luftwheeneez, right?
<sigh>

Careful Debrody.  If you read those threads it was some of the greatest Luftwhiners of our time involved.  You don't want to sound like one

And I'm not suggesting the addition of 150 octane fuel either

[Debrody]

Kurfurst, huh?   

[bustr]

Krup,

By the time those clearances were passed the Luft was all but none existant and they were willing to do anything that might help as an after thought including letting them burn up engines since the air war was pretty much over. Bondenplate finished the Luft. C3 was used primarily in the FW's DB801 series becasue it was an air cooled engine and with C3 it ran cooler while giving it high performance.

150 octane was a response to creating air superiority by the US and England over both the existing and last of the Luft designs. Eisenhower pushed for it to be in force for D-Day to help ensure dominace over the Luft but it didn't get approval until after the landing in July. The British 2nd Tac AF was cleared in 11\44. It was hard on engines reducing the mission life and fouling sparkplugs but, those issues were not seen as bad enough to stop using it for the performance increase.

Obviuosly it worked very well as a strategy from 8\44 until the end and each airforce resolved their issues with 150.  Implementing 150 for the specified aircraft from the performance document in the game is not a species of a 1946 arena like C3 in a K4, Do335 becasue some were seen flying, or P80's becasue several were in the ETO before the surrender.

Implementing it is not going to suddenly put 4 - 30mm in each plane while strapping two turbo jets under their wings. Though the 262 was probably one of the reasons for getting 150 into the ETO. Since HTC gives us perfict aircraft without the known mechanical issues that plauged many including the sabatouge on german fighters by german slave labor. Modeling 150 octane without the reduced engine life and need to change spark plugs after 2 missions won't be an issue.

[Debrody]

C3 was used even in Italy. There was a group of K4s lead by Adriano Visconti from late January. The amount of fuel sent from Germany was very little tho (not only from the C3).
Also... "DB801" in the FWs...  uhm..  haha
Anyway, wtf man, you want a spit that does 360 on the deck, really? This would turn the MA into an allied arena, seriously. Not if it isnt already bad enough.

Well... im just totally effed up nowadays, sorry for my mode.

[Scherf]

Your mode is fine debrody, I don't want to open this can o'worms either.

[Fox]

Does anyone know roughly what percentage of allied fighters used 150 octane toward the end of the war?  Was the 150 octane widespread and common or just something that existed but was rarely used.  What about for the axis fighters.  How widespread was the C3 (or whatever it is called) used late in the war?

[MiloMorai]

Does anyone know roughly what percentage of allied fighters used 150 octane toward the end of the war?  Was the 150 octane widespread and common or just something that existed but was rarely used.  What about for the axis fighters.  How widespread was the C3 (or whatever it is called) used late in the war?

Any Fw190 powered by a BMW 801 engine required C3 fuel. Me109s used mostly B4 fuel. Best to take anything Kurfurst had to say with a very large pinch of salt.

As for 150 fuel,

Consumption of 150 Grade Fuel - Barrels

        UK consumption   North West Europe
    June 1944   184,000 (25,205 tons)
    July 1944   283,000 (38,767 tons)
    August 1944   218,000 (29,863 tons)
    September 1944   169,000 (23,150 tons)
    October 1944   183,000 (25,068 tons)
    November 1944   140,000 (19,178 tons)
    December 1944   193,000 (26,438 tons)
    January 1945   138,000 (18,904 tons)   of which 15,000 (2,054 tons)
    February 1945   148,000 (20,273 tons)   of which 17,000 (2,328 tons
    March 1945   201,000 (27,534 tons)   of which 52,000 (7,123 tons)
    April 1945   208,000 (28,493 tons)   of which 89,000 (12,191 tons)
    May 1945   49,000 (6,712 tons)   of which 32,000 (4,383 tons)

    UK = 8th AAF and ADGB. Northwest Europe = 2nd TAF.

    Other figures.

    August 1944   USAAF 182,000 (24,931 tons)   RAF 49,000 (6712 tons)
    October 1944 estimated   USAAF 225,000   RAF 45,000
    December 1944 issues   USAAF 133,000   RAF 0
    December 1944 exports   USAAF 8,000   RAF 88,000
    December 1944 issues on continent.   USAAF 0   RAF 13,000

    7.3 Barrels = 1 ton.

    Data from POWE 33/990 33/991 33/992 33/985

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/150grade/Consumption_150_Grade_fuel_Barrels.html

[matt]

I'm with midway on this one, 

Spits need to be able to catch all those runners!!   Give the 150 octane and lets hear the 

Your handycap should be watered downed 85 octane from
a cheap gas station.   

[Midway]

Your handycap should be watered downed 85 octane from
a cheap gas station.   

 

[bustr]

So Allied fighter performance in the ETO is not modeled in Aces High POST D-Day?

6\44 to 5\7\45, is this being ignored? 11 months using 100\150 fuel by the Allies over the continent.

If spitfires, Tempest and P51 with the british and 8th AF for the last 11 months of the war could chase K4 down on the deck and destroy them. Then why isn't that modeled in our game?

------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually the backfire problem was sorted out, see: Backfire trouble resulting from use of 150 grade fuel. 27 July, 1944 and Backfire trouble resulting from use of 150 grade fuel. 12 August, 1944 31, 32

The increased performance obtained with 150 Grade Fuel was put to good use by Mustangs, Tempests and Spitfires in intercepting Buzz Bombs launched against Britain beginning mid June. Performance increases at sea level were as follows: 33


--------------------------------130 Grade--- 150 Grade 
SpitfireIX--------------------  335 mph----- 358 mph    +25 lb 
SpitfireXIV------------------  359 mph------ 366 mph    +21 lb 
Tempest V------------------- 372 mph------ 386 mph    +11 lb 
Mustang III (V-1650-3)----- 360 mph------ 390 mph    +25 lb 

Sea Level------------B4 Grade
BF109-K4 -----------368mph

We are playing in a LWMA dominated by a 10\44 german fighter competing against fighters castrated to their pre 7\44 preformance levels. Seems when the K4 was introduced in October  it was just another fast competitive fighter against the Allies. Not the fastest thing on Boost like our "Late War" main arena.

Looks like a late war P51D on 100\150 qualifies for a perk while the spitXIV may live up to the legend finaly. Wonder what this will do to the P47M?

[Debrody]

Sorry Bustr but that just dont make any sense.
If you feel that the allied aircrafts are dominated by the G14s and K4s, you are doing something horribly wrong.

[titanic3]

Why are we fixing something that's not broken? 

[pervert]

My mustang isnt fast enough!!
My spit outturns everything but i want it to outrun everything too!!

Sometimes it just cant be good enough.
Oh and wi ahr teh Luftwheeneez, right?
<sigh>

Who would think it...but I agree with Debrody 

[Lusche]

Sorry Bustr but that just dont make any sense.
If you feel that the allied aircrafts are dominated by the G14s and K4s, you are doing something horribly wrong.

...statistical snippet...

At least by killstats the K-4 has been all over them in all of 2011, and largely the G-14 too. The K-4 had an impressive K/D of 1.4 ( 20,995 kills to 14,905 deaths) vs all UK+US fighters, the only real exceptions being the F4U-4 and -C and the Tempest.


... statistical snippet...

[Debrody]

Lusche,
how many totalnewbs are flying the K4, as they do it with the pony or the spixteen?
How many K4s are doing kamikaze missions augering into the VHs?
The k4 is a great fighter aircraft, but stats cant show everything.