109 vs Spitfire

[R 105]

If the Hispano was a far better gun, any reason the german's didn't steal it from the french or british early in the war? After all they had to develope the mg151 fron scratch.

 Read, Strategy for Defeat The Luftwaffe 1933-1945 by Williamson Murray. It is a very dry read but it answers some question why the Germans did things like they did. Some of it was simply because a cretin engine or gun was all that was available to a particular manufacture base on need like the HS-129 using underpowered French engines because they had them.

 Some of it was strictly political kind of like when the US Army replaced the Colt 1911 with the Beretta 92 even after it finished 6th of 8 trial weapons. Maybe that is why the Germans did not copy the Hispano. Part of the reason may be because the Luftwaffe was looking to kill four engined bombers with as few hits as possible while the Allies were only looking to kill other single engine fighters. 

[Jabberwock]

Some of it was strictly political kind of like when the US Army replaced the Colt 1911 with the Beretta 92 even after it finished 6th of 8 trial weapons. Maybe that is why the Germans did not copy the Hispano. Part of the reason may be because the Luftwaffe was looking to kill four engined bombers with as few hits as possible while the Allies were only looking to kill other single engine fighters. 

Getting well off topic, but in which trials did the Model 92 finish sixth of eight weapons? The M92s (in a variety of flavours) won the 1980 US Air Force tests. The US Army conducted two sets of tests in the early 1980s and everyone failed, not just the  Beretta 92. It then re-tested under the XM9 designation and the Beretta won, mostly because it offered the same performance as the Sig Sauer P226, at a lower cost. Same story with the XM10 trials in 1988, despite Betetta refusing to compete in the competition and the US Army using 'off the shelf' models. These tests were really fait accompli though.

[GScholz]

Maybe that is why the Germans did not copy the Hispano. Part of the reason may be because the Luftwaffe was looking to kill four engined bombers with as few hits as possible while the Allies were only looking to kill other single engine fighters. 

The MG 151 was designed before the war and entered production in 1940 as the 151/15 and in 1941 as the 151/20, before America entered the war, and long before Germany faced any heavy-bomber threat. The MG 151 was the natural evolution of aircraft armament in Germany and not a response to any particular allied advancement.

[Karnak]

The MG 151 was designed before the war and entered production in 1940 as the 151/15 and in 1941 as the 151/20, before America entered the war, and long before Germany faced any heavy-bomber threat. The MG 151 was the natural evolution of aircraft armament in Germany and not a response to any particular allied advancement.

As an aircraft weapon it is also superior to the Hispano.

[Chungo63]

Karnak....Over 17000 posts???? OMFG!!!!!!!

[Karnak]

Karnak....Over 17000 posts???? OMFG!!!!!!!

But...but...I can name several people with more.

Also, I've been posting here since Dec of 1999.

[bozon]

But...but...I can name several people with more.

Also, I've been posting here since Dec of 1999.

that averages to almost 4 posts a day...

[LCADolby]

that averages to almost 4 posts a day...

3.846 per day

[R 105]

There are plenty of aircraft, cars and bikes that are sexier than some girls. 

Then you are hanging out with the wrong girls lol.

[R 105]

Getting well off topic, but in which trials did the Model 92 finish sixth of eight weapons? The M92s (in a variety of flavours) won the 1980 US Air Force tests. The US Army conducted two sets of tests in the early 1980s and everyone failed, not just the  Beretta 92. It then re-tested under the XM9 designation and the Beretta won, mostly because it offered the same performance as the Sig Sauer P226, at a lower cost. Same story with the XM10 trials in 1988, despite Betetta refusing to compete in the competition and the US Army using 'off the shelf' models. These tests were really fait accompli though.

I was not in the Army at the time they were looking to replace the 1911 I got out in 81. I recall reading about the mud trails where only two weapons past I think one was the Star from Spain? The big reason Beretta got the contract was they agreed to manufacture in here in the US. This is off topic and I used it as point of political decisions as the open top design of the M92 makes it a poor choice for combat conditions but the Army got it none the less.