Gun control laws do they work ?

[zack1234]

Is that like Cockney?

Yes

[LCADolby]

Yes

But your northern! 

[Widewing]

and you seem to be generating a lot of hot air and no rebuttal to semp's comments

Semp is all heat and no light... If he had a rational thought in a discussion, it may be worth discussion. However, he invariably resorts to low order trolling.

[guncrasher]

Listen, if the truth is painful, say "ouch".

Above is the typical Semp logic at work... "Hundreds of thousands of new employees"...blah, blah, blah.....

Seriously Semp, you generate more BS than Pamplona in July.....

well just give a brief description of how a government program to give free training to all new gun owners will work.  you think that is gonna require only a couple of employees and according to you will cost very little?  you are dreaming homeboy either that or the beer you drank was the size of a barrel.

and let me remind you, that you are proposing a new government program to train gun owners for free that according to you will cost very little if nothing.  now that is bs anywhere on the world not just in spain. 


semp

[Widewing]

well just give a brief description of how a government program to give free training to all new gun owners will work.  you think that is gonna require only a couple of employees and according to you will cost very little?  you are dreaming homeboy either that or the beer you drank was the size of a barrel.

and let me remind you, that you are proposing a new government program to train gun owners for free that according to you will cost very little if nothing.  now that is bs anywhere on the world not just in spain. 


semp

Semp, how do you manage with a 40 watt filament in a 100 watt world? There already is a government program for firearms training, the CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program). Currently, you have to join an affiliated gun club. If the program was opened to all who wanted safety training, the structure is already in place. Currently, several local CMP affiliated clubs in my area conduct firearms safety training for the general public for a small fee (covers the cost of printed materials). It's only a matter of standardizing the curriculum and having the materials printed by the Government Printing Office. The training is performed by volunteers.... Thus, cost is minimal, possibly less than your lobotomy  was....

[hlbly]

there ya go: rights are demonstrably not absolute, universal and inviolable. they change depending on what a particular society at a particular time has decided they should be. there is nothing natural about them, they are artificial and created by man, not handed to us prepackaged by nature/god/reality/whatever.

Yet again you are trying to make them collective . They are individual rights . The individual can lose his rights by his actions . No one ever said that it was contrary to the Bill of Rights to take away those rights because of individual misconduct . Sorry RT the legal opinion of brilliant legal minds differ with you . I do to on this . Let me clarify your position though so I am not making a mistake . Above quoted statement <sounds to me but i could be wrong> is that society determines all rights , collectively . Those rights are collective not individual . The collective or society can take those rights away . That there is no individual rights at all ? Love the discussion bro ! Coombzy take note . Intelligent debate without rancor or personal insults .

[hlbly]

Don't listen to RT he is talking gibberish, its a technique used by the middleclasses to appear to be supierior to the working classes - the term is called  "Elaborated Speech"

The lower orders use "Restricted speech"

Everyone in 1920's Germany was armed

German Weapons Law (Waffengesetz) of March 18, 1938 excluded Jews from owning guns,ammo being in the business of manufacture etc etc etc .It restructured a law which had been enacted ten years earlier by a Left-Center government hostile to the National Socialists ,the government headed by Wilhelm Marx and consisting of a coalition of Socialists . Got some interesting dates for China , Uganda , Cambodia  etc etc . Thank you Zach . I been waiting to spring this one . The democratically elected National Socialists . Your are right in 1920's they were . In the 1930's things were changing . The 1938 law took away a Jews right to own guns . Stripping them of INDIVIDUAL rights , not collective since it left other Germans rights fairly unhampered . I admit for the the larger part of Germans the laws were far from draconian .

[guncrasher]

Semp, how do you manage with a 40 watt filament in a 100 watt world? There already is a government program for firearms training, the CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program). Currently, you have to join an affiliated gun club. If the program was opened to all who wanted safety training, the structure is already in place. Currently, several local CMP affiliated clubs in my area conduct firearms safety training for the general public for a small fee (covers the cost of printed materials). It's only a matter of standardizing the curriculum and having the materials printed by the Government Printing Office. The training is performed by volunteers.... Thus, cost is minimal, possibly less than your lobotomy  was....

then what exactly is wrong with joining the club?  it is available to all us citizens who are able to legally own a gun.  and the cost is minimum.  but when you add the government to pay for everybody then you must have a bureaucracy to administer the payments for all those who want the training.  which in turn will increase the cost as everybody knows once the government is willing to pay then the CMP will have to compete with for profit training programs.  it has happened before, look at all those for profit schools being financed by government grants for students who end up with no education.

like i said the cost is minimum right now to join a club.  but if the government is going to pay for it then imagine how many employees are going to be needed to handle payments and verify requirement for the 1800 clubs right now in existence.  now imagine how many more clubs would have to be created to accommodate all those new members.

perhaps instead of resorting to personal insults you should step back think that your point of view may not be as cheap as you think it is.

semp

[zack1234]

German Weapons Law (Waffengesetz) of March 18, 1938 excluded Jews from owning guns,ammo being in the business of manufacture etc etc etc .It restructured a law which had been enacted ten years earlier by a Left-Center government hostile to the National Socialists ,the government headed by Wilhelm Marx and consisting of a coalition of Socialists . Got some interesting dates for China , Uganda , Cambodia  etc etc . Thank you Zach . I been waiting to spring this one . The democratically elected National Socialists . Your are right in 1920's they were . In the 1930's things were changing . The 1938 law took away a Jews right to own guns . Stripping them of INDIVIDUAL rights , not collective since it left other Germans rights fairly unhampered . I admit for the the larger part of Germans the laws were far from draconian .

Exactly the ownership of guns does equate defending liberty, Germans could own guns it does not  affect the behaviour of its government, you can have as many guns as you like the powers that be will enforce its will.

The German enacted laws with the mandate of the people and Germans had guns.

Hibly smells!

[DaveJ]

Took an NRA class yesterday so that I can get my concealed carry permit here in the great state of Virginia. Life is good. 

[SmokinLoon]

Exactly the ownership of guns does equate defending liberty, Germans could own guns it does not  affect the behaviour of its government, you can have as many guns as you like the powers that be will enforce its will.

The German enacted laws with the mandate of the people and Germans had guns.

Hibly smells!

The problem is with the lack of a specific constitution.  If the legislative body "gave" a right, it can certainly take it away.  In the US, while the items guaranteed in the US Constitution, it is spelled out specifically as to what those freedoms are and yet they are subject to regulation.  Case in point: per the 1st Amendment a person can say as they like w/o fear of being persecuted. However, there is no right to be heard and there is no right in incite harm.  They also can worship as they please within in the realm of normalcy (no sacrificing live chickens or blood letting, etc).  The people can also gather as they please but that does not give them the right to hinder public normalcy (get a permit to hold a parade, block traffic, etc).  Etc etc. 

Regarding the 2nd Amendment here in the US, the US Constitution specifically states the right is to secure a free State.  The overwhelming majority of constitutional scholars will agree that the idea was to keep the raw power of USA in the direct physical hands of the people.  If the left-wingers ever decided to try and fully bring that specific right down, they can and will be met with force.  The next argument usually after that statement usually gets in to a "US military vs US citizen militia".  Those discussions are always fun to partake in.      

[RTHolmes]

... or indeed the right-wingers

[W7LPNRICK]

Quick way to settle the whole argument. We'll meet somewhere out in the desert. We'll bring our Gun rights & you bring your....argument against gun rights. Those who leave with their rights intact are the winners.      

[zack1234]

I have a bowl of soup to stop the Government
I have a gun to stop the  the Government

Because you own a gun does not make you important or empower you, all it means is you own a gun.

The Government will not force its will on you it has no need to, it knows what you are doing, counting your bullet's and looking under your bed for reds

I would laugh but I am jealous really because I would like a Thompson, not to fight society, but to make aloud noise with it.

You are all paranoid about loosing your 4x4 as well Ford,GM and Chrysler must be laughing their spuds off, biggest selling pitch they have ever had.

Its the same with Gun manufacturers they have never had it so good, your paranoia has increased gun sales

[LCADolby]

I bought a bread knife out of paranoia, not to take on the government, but because the last lot went green!