Author Topic: Hawker sea fury.............  (Read 4318 times)

Offline Butcher

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Re: Hawker sea fury.............
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2012, 07:31:16 PM »
The Do-335 did see combat, though not at squad level. I read one account where 4 Tempests jumped a single Do-335. End result the Do-335 simply outran them. My guess is there may be a few other similar, one-off accounts.

Boo

This was a prototype flown by a test pilot - it had no guns, Pierre Clostermann was the one that had the encounter:
In his book The Big Show (pages 273-274) he describes leading a flight of four Hawker Tempests from No. 3 Squadron RAF over northern Germany, when he intercepted a lone Do 335 flying at maximum speed at treetop level. Detecting the British aircraft, the German pilot reversed course to evade. Despite the Tempest's considerable low altitude speed, the RAF fighters were not able to catch up or even get into firing position.

I found some war records on this, it was a prototype, test pilot was happy he only had a quarter of tank of gas and without the guns gave the Do-335 very brisk acceleration, however it was actually destroyed later on by bombing sadly.
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Offline DMGOD

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Re: Hawker sea fury.............
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2012, 07:36:02 PM »



The Do-335 was one of a small group of aircraft marking the pinnacle of international piston-engined development. It was the fastest production piston-engined fighter ever built, attaining 846 kilometers per hour (474 mph) in level flight at a time when the official world speed record was 755 kph (469 mph). Powered by two 1800-hp engines in a unique low-drag configuration and weighing 9600 kg (21,000 lb) loaded, it was an exceptional heavy fighter. This very innovative design also featured an ejection seat, for pilot safety, and a jettisoning fin.

The unconventional layout of the Do-335 -- one engine "pulling" in the nose and another "pushing" in the tail - was patented by Claudius Dornier in 1937. The configuration provided the power of two engines, but with reduced drag and better maneuverability. The German Aviation Ministry (RLM) was interested in the design, but initially wanted Dornier only to produce bombers. By 1942, Dornier was still continuing design work and the war situation was worsening. The Luftwaffe now needed a multi-purpose fighter, and the prototype Do-335V-1 ("V" indicating "versuchs" or "experimental") flew in fighter form in September, 1943 - six years after its conception. Orders were immediately placed for 14 prototypes, 10 A-0 preproduction aircraft, 11 production A-1 single-seaters, and 3 A-10 and A-12 two-seat trainers.

The aircraft was quite large for a single-seat fighter, with a cruciform tail and a tricycle landing gear. The two massive liquid-cooled Daimler-Benz DB-603 engines were used in four different versions, each displacing 44.5 liters (2670 cu in) and weighing 910 kg (2006 lb). The engine produced 1750 hp from 12 cylinders in an inverted V layout using fuel injection and an 8.3:1 compression ratio. The rear three-bladed propeller and dorsal fin were jettisoned by explosive bolts in an emergency, to allow the pilot to bail out safely using a pneumatic ejection seat. The seat, inclined 13 degrees to the rear, was ejected with a force of 20 times gravity. The ventral fin could be jettisoned for a belly landing.

Unlike a normal twin-engined aircraft, with wing-mounted engines, loss of an engine on the Do-335 did not cause a handling problem. Even with one engine out, speed was a respectable 621 kph (348 mph). Because of its appearance, pilots dubbed it the "Ant eater" ("Ameisenbar"), although they described its performance as exceptional, particularly in acceleration and turning radius. The Do-335 was very docile in flight and had no dangerous spin characteristics. Many Do-335 prototypes were built, as the Reich strained desperately to provide day and night fighters and fast reconnaissance aircraft to the failing war effort. One of the many RLM production plans, issued in December 1943, called for the production of 310 Do-335s by late 1945. Initial production was at the Dornier Manuel plant, but this factory was bombed heavily in March-April, 1944, and the Do-335 tooling was destroyed.

Ten Do-335A-0 preproduction aircraft were then produced at Dornier's Oberpfaffenhofen plant in July-October 1944, by which time the Allied bombing campaign was delaying arrivals of engines, propellers, radios, and structural subcomponents. This had a serious effect, because the Do-335 was not a simple aircraft: installation of the electronics alone took 60 hours of assembly, and the electrical parts list was 112 pages long. Production of Daimler-Benz engines, for example, was switched to factories set up in underground salt mines and gypsum mines, but high humidity caused corrosion problems and production dropped 40 percent. Although several preproduction aircraft were issued to combat conversion units some 10 months before the war ended, no Do-335s actually entered combat. Deliveries began to the 1st Experimental Squadron of the Commander-in-Chief of the Luftwaffe ( I/Versuchsverband Ob.d.L.) in late July 1944 for operational trials.

The first of the Do-335A-1 production version left the Dornier line at Friedrichshafen early in 1945, one of only four produced in 1945. It was armed with one 30 mm MK-103 cannon (70 rounds were carried) firing through the propeller hub and two 15 mm MG-151/15 cannon (200 rounds per gun) firing from the top of the forward engine. Even with the fighter situation as desperate as it was, these aircraft were still equipped to carry 500 kg (1100 lb) of bombs internally. Further operational testing, including use of air-to-ground guided missiles, began in Spring 1945 with Trials Unit (Erprobungskommando) 335.

The Do-335A-6 was to be a two-seat night fighter version with the advanced FFO FuG-217J Neptun radar having triple "trident"-like antennas (hence the name "Neptun") on the fuselage and wings, but only a prototype was completed. A total of 37 prototypes, 10 A-0s, 11 A-1s and 2 A-12 trainers were built, although nearly 85 additional aircraft were in assembly when U.S. troops overran the Friedrichshafen factory in late April, 1945. The Vienna-Swechat plant of the Ernst Heinkel AG was also scheduled to build the Do-335 beginning in February, 1945, but production never started.

The NASM aircraft is the second Do-335A-0, designated A-02, with construction number (werke nummer) 240102 and factory registration VG+PH. It was built at Dornier's Rechlin-Oberpfaffenhofen, Germany, plant on April 16, 1945. It was captured by Allied forces at the plant on April 22, 1945. After checkout, it was flown from a grass runway at Oberweisenfeld, near Munich, to Cherbourg, France. During this flight, the Do-335 easily outclimbed and outdistanced two escorting P-51s, beating them to Cherbourg by 45 minutes. Under the U.S. Army Air Force's "Project Sea Horse," two Do-335s were shipped to the United States aboard the Royal Navy ship HMS "Reaper" together with other captured German aircraft, for detailed evaluation. This aircraft was assigned to the U.S. Navy, which tested it at the Test and Evaluation Center, Patuxent River Naval Air Station, Maryland. The other aircraft, with registration FE-1012 (later T2-1012), went to the USAAF at Freeman Field, Indiana, where it was tested in early 1946. Its subsequent fate is unknown, and this is the only Do-335 known to exist.

Following Navy flight tests in 1945-48, the aircraft was donated to the Smithsonian's National Air Museum in 1961 but was stored at NAS Norfolk until 1974. It was then returned to Oberpfaffenhofen, Germany, where the Dornier company restored it to original condition in 1975. The return trip to Germany required an exemption under U.S. laws concerning the export of munitions. The Dornier craftsmen doing the restoration - many of whom had worked on the original aircraft -- were astonished to find that the explosive charges fitted to blow off the tail fin and rear propeller in an emergency were still in the aircraft and active, 30 years after their original installation! The Do-335 was put on static display at the May 1-9, 1976, Hannover Airshow, and then loaned to the Deutsches Museum in Munich, where it was on prominent display until returned to Silver Hill, MD, for storage in 1986.


http://airandspace.si.edu/collections/artifact.cfm?id=A19610129000


man that thing must have been fun to fly
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Offline nrshida

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Re: Hawker sea fury.............
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2012, 08:51:26 PM »
I read one account where 4 Tempests jumped a single Do-335. End result the Do-335 simply outran them.

Runtard!  :mad:
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Hawker sea fury.............
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2012, 09:33:58 PM »
There is your problem.  You used Wiki.


I'm getting a bit tired of this kind of knee-jerk wiki bashing. If he had actually used Wiki, he would have known better.
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Offline Eric19

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Re: Hawker sea fury.............
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2012, 07:14:01 AM »

I'm getting a bit tired of this kind of knee-jerk wiki bashing. If he had actually used Wiki, he would have known better.
I read wiki many times and found that what I thought to be the sea fury coming into squadron strength within a couple days of the war ending and obviously I read it wrong so thats why I came here to dig up more info from the people with the actual books on stuff like this

very cool read there DMGOD

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Offline Karnak

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Re: Hawker sea fury.............
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2012, 08:27:51 AM »
Even if it had come into squadron service within a couple of days before the war ended it is unlikely it would have seen combat.  Both the F7F and F8F entered squadron service shortly before VJ day, but neither made it into combat.  That does not 100% preclude them, but HTC stated that they would like for things added to have seen combat.
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Offline zack1234

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Re: Hawker sea fury.............
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2012, 09:04:07 AM »
No allied proto types were shipped any where because they won the war, and thus kept secret.

Why are people not flying the 410 in game  they voted for it?

 
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Offline Eric19

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Re: Hawker sea fury.............
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2012, 09:34:46 AM »
No allied proto types were shipped any where because they won the war, and thus kept secret.

Why are people not flying the 410 in game  they voted for it?

 
cause the 410 is a pig at 23,000lbs and has a turn radius the size of texas
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Hawker sea fury.............
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2012, 09:38:54 AM »
Why are people not flying the 410 in game  they voted for it?


Who said they aren't? ;)
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Hawker sea fury.............
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2012, 10:04:19 AM »
No allied proto types were shipped any where because they won the war, and thus kept secret.

Why are people not flying the 410 in game  they voted for it?

 
There is almost nothing left to add that will see high volume usage. Stop complaining about new things not being used like the P-51D.
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Offline zack1234

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Re: Hawker sea fury.............
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2012, 10:04:32 AM »
I don't want to see any of your charts :)

They are nothing but lies and statistics. :)

I do like pie charts though, even though there are not made of meat. :)
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Offline icepac

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Re: Hawker sea fury.............
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2012, 10:19:22 AM »
My dad used to walk around the planes when they were stored in norfolk........mostly just sitting on the ramp out in the elements.

In the late 80s or early 90s, the DO335 was at Garber and some old guy fooled me into thinking the explosive bolts that remove the rear of the plane for egress were still live at that time.

Old dudes love to troll the noobs and it's more fun in real life than on the internet.

Offline phatzo

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Re: Hawker sea fury.............
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2012, 08:19:49 PM »
Thought you guys in this thread may appreciate this pic.  Both my grandfathers were in the RCAF and RAF during the war.  One grandfather was a ferry pilot for Lancasters far part of the war, and then went on to work for the RAF after his RCAF tour in Bomber Command.  He didn't fly any missions but worked with the "office" in operations.  My other grandfather was something of a radio whiz, and worked for the RAF first, THEN the RCAF.  I have pictures of him with the a303 Polish squadron during the BoB and a bunch of other slides.  We just discovered this set of slides of planes he enjoyed working on after the war.  This belonged to an old friend of his.  My grandfather is in the white on the wing.  I'm not 100% even of the type, but with the tail hook I  think it is some variant of the Sea Fury, but as my grandfather has passed away and I've yet to find the corresponding notes with his slides, I can't be sure other than my grandmother saying this was one of the planes we worked on for friends of his who had money and planes of their own, haha.

(Image removed from quote.)



CF-CHB was a Sea Fury FB Mk11 so I would assume CE-CFB is one too.
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Hawker sea fury.............
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2012, 11:52:57 AM »
The Do 335 was a complete Pfeil.  :P
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Offline bozon

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Re: Hawker sea fury.............
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2012, 02:50:04 PM »
During the Israeli independence war an Israeli Beaufighter (flown by a Canadian volunteer) shot down an Egyptian Sea Fury (actually a maneuver kill at low alt). Why ask for a Sea Fury, when we can ask for a Beaufighter?

http://www.acesofww2.com/Canada/aces/fitchett.htm
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