Updated Ordnance System

[Tank-Ace]

I propose that for our next addition (unless of course HTC were getting close to finish a current project  ), we get an updated ordnance system.

Essentially, if an ordnance package blocks another from being carried, the ones being blocked would become greyed out in the selection screen. It would possibly ease nagivation of the loadout-selection for newer players, and would also allow us to expand out current ordnance options.


Greyed out selections could still be clicked, but one of two things would happen when you do:
1) the selection that prevents the clicked-on item from being carried would be removed from the airframe (grey-out would have to be made very obvious in that case).

2) a pop-up saying "you cannot carry both 'Selection A' and 'Selection B' simultaneously'.



Along with the new loadout system (one would think it would be fairly simple to code), I would enjoy seeing some updated ordnance options.


1) 250kg bomb for the 109F-4.
2) 300L wing DT's for the 190A-5 (as on the A5/U8. Would use the new system, only the 2 20mm option was used with them).
3) 4x 50kg centerline mount for the 190F8
4) 1x 1000kg bomb option for the F-8
5) And the two SC 250 wing racks for the 190F-8, which would block all other options. Could carry 2 250kg bombs, or 2 500kg bombs.
6) Bazooka tube rockets for the P-51D
7) 2000lb bombs for the F4U-1D

[hitech]

Why do you wish it to be more restrictive?

HiTech

[Tank-Ace]

Because certain ordnance options weren't carried in combination with eachother, and this would allow us to represent that.

For example, all evidence we've seen so far indicates the 190F-8 flew with a clean centerline if there was more than 500kg (combined) on the wings, or when wing DT's were used.

F4U-1D's, IIRC, didn't carry rockets if the 2000lb bombs were carried, even though they did not occupy the same position.

300L wing drop-tanks for the A-5/U8 is another good one. They removed the outboard cannons on the /U8, and then put the drop tanks on it. This would allow us to represent that model without requiring us to move the WGr 21's and wing tanks over to the gun selection column in a layout similar to that of the 110G.

We could also move the bombs on the 110 over to the centerline position, and get them off of the gun selection column this way. Doesn't affect the way the 110 is loaded per se, just it up a bit.


Basically, it would simply provide greater flexibility for representation of various ordnance combinations while maintaining the historical representation of the aircraft.

[SmokinLoon]

"Restrictive" is such a harsh term, kind Sir.     Perhaps the P51D has for too long been given an option it was never intended to have?  Mounting dual 1k bombs and the six 5in rockets has always been debatable.

As far as the 190F-8 and the options it is missing in AH, I'd really like to see it have the 8/50kg bomb ability.  Pictures have been posted here in the forums and I have a book showing that the 8/50kg bombs were an option.  Also, I had forgotten about the 1000kg bomb load out option, that would also be a first and only fighter in AH to have a single 1000 kg (2200 lbs) bomb ability.  Also, giving the 190F-8 even more of a differentiation from the rest of the 190's and German fighters would be nice. Giving it dual 250 kg or dual 500 kg bombs would bring even MORE diversity!

If they ordnance load outs were historically accurate then please at least consider adding it to AH.  Thank you.      

[Butcher]

"Restrictive" is such a harsh term, kind Sir.    Perhaps the P51D has for too long been given an option it was never intended to have?  Mounting dual 1k bombs and the six 5in rockets has always been debatable.

As far as the 190F-8 and the options it is missing in AH, I'd really like to see it have the 8/50kg bomb ability.  Pictures have been posted here in the forums and I have a book showing that the 8/50kg bombs were an option.  Also, I had forgotten about the 1000kg bomb load out option, that would also be a first and only fighter in AH to have a single 1000 kg (2200 lbs) bomb ability.  Also, giving the 190F-8 even more of a differentiation from the rest of the 190's and German fighters would be nice. Giving it dual 250 kg or dual 500 kg bombs would bring even MORE diversity!

If they ordnance load outs were historically accurate then please at least consider adding it to AH.  Thank you.      

51 is not debatable, no evidence was found it ever carried the 1k's and rockets. Unless 10 books on it are wrong, all I can see as it flew in Korea with that loadout.

190F should get the 4x 50KG bomb rack, not sure if the entire 190 needs to be updated for this? not sure..

As for the 250kg bombs on the wings, the 190F did not carry these, only the 190G.

Only thing the G model did get from the F was the 4x 50kg bombs under the center line, and the 250kg and 500kg however it did not carry any ords on the wings or drop tanks (Im guessing the rack was hampering enough) not sure exactly why it was limited to just the 4x bombs, maybe perhaps drop tanks were added I haven't found any photos to support it.
F model was a close support aircraft, G was a long range strike fighter.
I really don't see anyone flying a G model, other then it being historically accurate in game for long range strikes.

The 190G3 which is the 1943 variant is the most numerous version is based on the 190A-5

Edited: I was trying to look up some information and it seems the F-8 model actually could hold up to 1000kg bomb or 1800kg bomb... I don't have any information or material to support an F-8 ever carried this size of a bomb.

I'd have to go through all my books to find this out.

[Hazard69]

+1

Would love to see more of the 250lb & 500lbs bomb options on attackers being used... 

Also perhaps this could open the way to a perked ordinance system too? For the few, the rare and the weird?

[Tank-Ace]

51 is not debatable, no evidence was found it ever carried the 1k's and rockets. Unless 10 books on it are wrong, all I can see as it flew in Korea with that loadout.

190F should get the 4x 50KG bomb rack, not sure if the entire 190 needs to be updated for this? not sure..

As for the 250kg bombs on the wings, the 190F did not carry these, only the 190G.

Only thing the G model did get from the F was the 4x 50kg bombs under the center line, and the 250kg and 500kg however it did not carry any ords on the wings or drop tanks (Im guessing the rack was hampering enough) not sure exactly why it was limited to just the 4x bombs, maybe perhaps drop tanks were added I haven't found any photos to support it.
F model was a close support aircraft, G was a long range strike fighter.
I really don't see anyone flying a G model, other then it being historically accurate in game for long range strikes.

The 190G3 which is the 1943 variant is the most numerous version is based on the 190A-5

Edited: I was trying to look up some information and it seems the F-8 model actually could hold up to 1000kg bomb or 1800kg bomb... I don't have any information or material to support an F-8 ever carried this size of a bomb.

I'd have to go through all my books to find this out.

Do you mean the base F-8, or are you including various Umrüst-Bausatz kits?


The various Fw 190F-8/Ux are not different aircraft, but simply factory modifications. Many of our options on the German aircraft (including various gun options) are Umrüst-Bausatz or Rustaze kits.

[bustr]

Has anyone ever verified if for each one of these kits, factory or feild installed. Will a new coded aircraft have to be created for some, due to performance changes greater than the current code fixed models tollerances?

Do we know if your vision of updated ordnance is the same as the perked ordnance HTC has mentioned in the past they would like to eventualy introduce?

[Tank-Ace]

No changes made to engine output on most kits as far as I can see. Same goes for most other aircraft as well.

Occationally, you'll run into those bomber-buster kits that were cleared for higher ata levels than the standard aircraft, just to help deal with the extra weights. But those appear to be exceptions to the rule.

[LilMak]

I'd love to see 1000lbers perked for fighters that can carry more than one. Simply to see more small and medium bombers come into play.

[bangsbox]

Tank ace, haven't u not played In yrs or months... And more options +1 more restrictions -1.

[Tank-Ace]

Tank ace, haven't u not played In yrs or months... And more options +1 more restrictions -1.

Check PM, and why -1 for restrictions?


If the 190F-8 didn't carry 2 500kg bombs on the wings and a 1000kg bomb on the centerline in real life, why should it be able to do so in Aces High?

[Delirium]

Many of you are forgetting that in the field, they often piled on ordnance beyond safe recommendations. Some of them even made their own release mechanisms or safeties to prevent the extra weight from damaging the aircraft itself.

[bangsbox]

Check PM, and why -1 for restrictions?


If the 190F-8 didn't carry 2 500kg bombs on the wings and a 1000kg bomb on the centerline in real life, why should it be able to do so in Aces High?

it cant carry 2 500 on wing and 1000 on wing now either

[Tank-Ace]

Updating the ord system would allow us to add both options though, which is the point.


Without first updating the ord system to allow the restriction of specific loadout combinations, we'd be essntially saying "haha, f*** you history".


@ Delierium, IIRC, many of the Rustaze kits were adapted from some of the more common field modifications.

However, if it wasn't official, I agree with HTC that it should't be put in; too many unknowns in most of the cases, and then you get the problem of losing the clean line between whats allowed and whats not.