Crash this weekend at my airport.

[Golfer]

[hitech]

I'm not sure why he would intentionally come in faster and chew up more runway gliding down it with no flaps. Those 172s will float in ground effect for a long time if flaps aren't used.

Almost all training in 172's is now no flap approaches. All my normal field training was with no flaps in a 172.

RV I typically use 10 deg just for a tad slower stall speed. Full flap landings make it  more difficult to have a feather soft touch down by rolling the wheels on.

HiTech

[hitech]

Slashe27: That does not look like 52F North West regional to me.

HiTech

[Tupac]

I don't know why in a 172 people wouldn't use full flaps. You don't float as much, you are carrying less energy (so less energy in the event of a crash - like this one) and less runway usage. Since your touchdown speed is slower it's also less wear on the tires & brakes.

[jollyFE]

I use full flaps every time, but then I mainly operate out of a short field in the 172.

[colmbo]

You were taught wrong.  I say that with 30 years of giving flight instruction.

Cessna doesn't agree with you.  Flap use is optional.

[icepac]

I really liked the 40 degree flaps we had in the aerobat.

[Traveler]

Cessna doesn't agree with you.  Flap use is optional.

Colmbo, this is what you originally said "When I learned to fly I was taught a normal pattern is 10 degrees of flap for landing, full flaps only for a "short field"."
I was just saying that if your instructor taught you that, he/she was wrong.

are you saying that cessna taught you to only use 10% flaps for every landing?

I’m looking at the POH for 172 Normal Procedures.  Landing , Normal Landing the very first sentence reads: “ Normal landing approaches can be made with power-on or power-off with any flap setting desired.”

I'd be insterested if you could direct me to the Cessna manual, teaching guide or any Cessna document  that instructed you to limit flap usage to 10%.  Because that's what you said, you were taught, instructed to only use 10% flaps for a normal landing.  That is wrong. 

thanks.

[Golfer]

Put your nit picker away.

He was taught a technique, which is acceptable with the manufacturers allowances.  His technique doesn't make it your or anyone else's procedure.

And you oughta know that.

Personally I liked flaps 20 degrees at my home 5500' field once upon a time.

[CAP1]

Why not?  You get a flatter glide and your timing doesn't have to be as good in the flare as with full flaps.  There is plenty of runway there for a no flap landing.  When I learned to fly I was taught a normal pattern is 10 degrees of flap for landing, full flaps only for a "short field".

 i was taught 10 degrees at initial decent, turn base, go to 20, turn final, stabilize, and when field is definitely made, go 30 degrees. was told i can go to 40 on short final if necessary.
 i was made to practice no-flap landings when practicing simulated emergencies. all of my training was in c172n's, and some in c172p's. oh yea.....have about 12 hours in a 1962 c172a? i think it was? 6 cylinder with manual flaps.
 not a single one of those was i taught to normally land with less than 30 degrees in normal conditions

[Zoney]

Traveler, of what I know of Columbo, "calling him out" which I feel you may have just done, will not end well for your ego sir.

Don't get mad or even a bit irate at me, I speak from years of flying sims with Columbo sir.


And traveler, <S>

[Slash27]

Slashe27: That does not look like 52F North West regional to me.

HiTech

It was. Guy lost power and ran through the fence on the south end.

[Golfer]

Cap,

The neat thing about technique vs procedure is it allows for the million ways to skin the cat of operating an airplane safely. If you're changing configuration on short final I'd critique against changing anything when you're in that tight. If the difference between being okay and making it is between flaps 30 and 40 in a trainer then take it around and be on target for your next pass.  This is double super duper especially so for student pilots where one technique at a time is all they should have.

You were taught to do things the same way each time and that repetition is a good thing. On my first flight as an instructor I babysat a certificated private pilot on a cross country. Things went fine and we entered the pattern at the destination on the 45 which made life easy for him. Upon returning home we were told to report a 3 mile right base. He was lined up fine and when we were still outside the local D airspace he added 10 degrees of flaps. 6-7 miles from the field. I was curious so I asked why he did that. "I was taught to have flaps 10 when turning base and and add 20..." (here, 30 here, etc.  Hard to argue that logic but I asked if he wouldn't mind pulling the flaps up and trying it "this way" adding the flaps in the same distance from landing just in different points in space.  He was actually noticeably uncomfortable and I was scratching my head at this. Well he soldiered through, flew a successful approach and landing. When we got on the ground we chatted a bit about it and it turns out he never had flown or had been asked to fly a modified pattern at any point. Doing all his instruction at even a towered airport he only approached from the west or south when it came to the practice area and cross countries. His flying since passing his checkride had been more of the same. We talked about it a little more, he was excited and asked to fly some more with me going forward.

The point of the story is that repetition and a consistent technique are great training aids. In the real world there are times you'll want to amend that technique for any number of reasons and even though they way you may have even initially taught something doesn't mean it's the only way.

This isn't just toward you. Pilots have gotten into disagreements in airline and business jet cockpits alike over procedure vs technique.

[CAP1]

I don't know why in a 172 people wouldn't use full flaps. You don't float as much, you are carrying less energy (so less energy in the event of a crash - like this one) and less runway usage. Since your touchdown speed is slower it's also less wear on the tires & brakes.

 if you've got an older model with 40 degrees, you can get yourself into a lot of trouble with those barn doors hanging down that low.

[colmbo]

Colmbo, this is what you originally said "When I learned to fly I was taught a normal pattern is 10 degrees of flap for landing, full flaps only for a "short field"."
I was just saying that if your instructor taught you that, he/she was wrong.

You're correct in that it's okay to use any flap setting so using full flap for a "normal" landing is as correct as using zero flap. 

I don't agree that my instruction was "wrong" -- See Golfers reply. 

In my personal flying I always use full flaps for landing be it 150, 206 or B-24.