Aircraft ENY

[transatlanticflight]

It seems you would be penalizing the ordinance carrying pilot, while allowing the B&Z picker to get his perk ride regardless of a numbers imbalance. The purpose of ENY is to balance sides when there is an imbalance of numbers by restricting the high performance (and high ord carrying) planes from the side that has a numbers advantage. Your proposal entirely defeats the purpose does it not?

Also your postulation that 190 and p51 pilots are novices isn't supported by my experience...most newbies fly the "legends" at first (Spitty's, p40's, p38...maybe a poorly flown p51d) until they get their butts kicked by B&Z planes in the hands of experienced pilots. Then they fly what killed them...a 190 or a p51. If a newbie ever gets competent, then they start experimenting with other rides when they begin to understand the complex relationship of performance factors. imho

[tunnelrat]

Planes that CAN carry tons of ords are given lower ENY than higher performing planes that cannot.

The assumption here is that since ENY is a static assignment, it is the potential to carry these ords that is the reasoning behind this disparity when the rest of the planes abilities are taken into account.

The OP wishes that ENY is calculated based upon what you DO take... not what you CAN take.

[matt]

No that is not what I'm asking for.  

Let me explain in an example:
 - Someone flying a P-51D fully loaded with bombs and rockets and a 6x50 gun package should have a lower number ENY (5 or 6 or whatever it is today)
compared to
 - Someone flying a P-51D with no ordnance and a 4x50 gun package should have a higher number ENY (maybe 15-20?)  

I'm just making up a number here, lets not start fighting about what the ENY should or shouldn't be... Lets stay focused on my wish that they should be different based off of the loadout the specific aircraft is carrying.

Not a bad idea

[matt]

Not a bad idea

5 eny with ords... 6 eny without.....

[matt]

No that is not what I'm asking for.  

Let me explain in an example:
 - Someone flying a P-51D fully loaded with bombs and rockets and a 6x50 gun package should have a lower number ENY (5 or 6 or whatever it is today)
compared to
 - Someone flying a P-51D with no ordnance and a 4x50 gun package should have a higher number ENY (maybe 15-20?)  

I'm just making up a number here, lets not start fighting about what the ENY should or shouldn't be... Lets stay focused on my wish that they should be different based off of the loadout the specific aircraft is carrying.

5 eny with ords and 6 without ?

[tunnelrat]

5 eny with ords and 6 without ?

If an ordless Delta is worth an ENY of 6, you'd have to make the La-7 an ENY of -20

[Karnak]

If an ordless Delta is worth an ENY of 6, you'd have to make the La-7 an ENY of -20

Not true.  The P-51D has significant advantages over the La-7, just as the La-7 has significant advantages over the P-51D.

You also have to keep usage in mind.

[transatlanticflight]

Planes that CAN carry tons of ords are given lower ENY than higher performing planes that cannot.

The assumption here is that since ENY is a static assignment, it is the potential to carry these ords that is the reasoning behind this disparity when the rest of the planes abilities are taken into account.

The OP wishes that ENY is calculated based upon what you DO take... not what you CAN take.

My statement stands: Giving the empty perk plane a higher ENY than the loaded plane, does what? It penalizes strategic players but continues to allow score hounds to rape and pillage. I think the MA gives those pilots enough advantage as it is...if you need your perk ride bad enough switch sides and even out the odds. Frankly, with access to unloaded 51D's the number advantaged country can still take bases by showing up in a horde, deacking and dominating the air space while a few buffs or gvs white flag the town for the goon. The rooks seem famous for this tactic lately...while vulching one base and generating huge dar...they attempt to sneak a neighboring base...dividing the already disadvantaged defense...and often getting one or both bases.

Secondly, this would require some potentially elaborate programming to dynamically determine a planes availability based on it's load out. Without seeing the code, I would guess it's currently a simple test on exiting the hanger: testing country ENY variable against the static Table ENY value for the plane you selected.

At the very least, to impliment your ordinance carrying ENY calculation, a new variable for the ENY value of each ordance item would have to be created (since there are different combinations of ord) or if some such variable can be inferred from existing variables, it would need to be summed, subtracted from or added to the plane ENY dynamically(depending on how you modify the existing ENY fields in the plane table) and then tested against the table. And still there would have to be some manner of explaining/ displaying the 2 ENY values (ie 5(6)) in the plane table...ALL for what? (see above).

FYI If you are a rocket scientist? they must be bottle rockets.  

Fire with fire   flame with flame

[Vinkman]

I get what you're saying. there's some logic to it, but I see issues that need clarifying...

What is the ENY of a Pony D with 2 1000lbs and 5x.50, compared to a PonyD with just the 6x.50 at take off? Then when he drops the bombs does his ENY change? If not, I'd get more perks for killing a Pony that dropped it's ords, than I did for a Pony that didn't take off with any ords. This would effect perk points but in an unintuitive way. A loaded Pony is easy pickins. Seems backwards to get more perks for killing a loaded pony, vs an light one.

When ENY effects side balance, your formula would allow folks to go fighter patrolling in Ponies, but ENY might prevent them from taking ords. perhaps this is your intent. If so, ENY would have to be calulated for every gun, ord, and fuel load out. Of course that could be done, but to Lushes point I think ENY is also modelled based on usage. Loadout based stas would need to be added and tracked overtime to monitor the effect and make adjustments.

My guess is that a new system probably wouldn't change the current system's outcome. But I love data so I'd love to see the numbers. 

[RedBull1]

I haven't spent the time to read the entire thread, but what I am getting from it is you think your pony should be higher ENY when you're not carrying bombs so you can make more perks, or whatever have you?
But I don't believe you have taken into account that the pony is still one of the fastest planes in the game, the only time you will catch 90% of pony drivers is if they're new and try to turn, or dive on them from a substantial altitude. Don't get me wrong I still kill my fair share of pony's but it is more often than not they will just BnZ me to the point where they can't kill me so they have to break off, oooor I get so bored I just pull in and HO him. 

[tunnelrat]

I haven't spent the time to read the entire thread, but what I am getting from it is you think your pony should be higher ENY when you're not carrying bombs so you can make more perks, or whatever have you?
But I don't believe you have taken into account that the pony is still one of the fastest planes in the game, the only time you will catch 90% of pony drivers is if they're new and try to turn, or dive on them from a substantial altitude. Don't get me wrong I still kill my fair share of pony's but it is more often than not they will just BnZ me to the point where they can't kill me so they have to break off, oooor I get so bored I just pull in and HO him. 

I think he was just using the Pony-D as an example... for the reasons you mentioned above all it has is speed.  The problem is, there are cannon fighters with higher ENY and better speed, maneuverability, and acceleration at "common AH altitudes".

Why is the D ENY 5 and the B ENY 20?  2 .50 cals?

[Pand]

Hey Transatlanticflight!  Here are my thoughts:

Frankly, with access to unloaded 51D's the number advantaged country can still take bases by showing up in a horde, deacking and dominating the air space while a few buffs or gvs white flag the town for the goon.

Would it be easier to de-ack and dominate the air space with 10 P-51Ds with no ordnance, or 10 La-7s?
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Thanks for your input Vinkman!

What is the ENY of a Pony D with 2 1000lbs and 5x.50, compared to a PonyD with just the 6x.50 at take off? Then when he drops the bombs does his ENY change? If not, I'd get more perks for killing a Pony that dropped it's ords, than I did for a Pony that didn't take off with any ords. This would effect perk points but in an unintuitive way. A loaded Pony is easy pickins. Seems backwards to get more perks for killing a loaded pony, vs an light one.

If it were up to me, I would say that your ENY when you leave the hangar is what your overall potential hitting power for that sortie is.   It is also your total worth when you die.  Regardless if you hit or missed your target, or jettisoned your ords, you still had the potential to do X amount of damage during that flight.

When ENY effects side balance, your formula would allow folks to go fighter patrolling in Ponies, but ENY might prevent them from taking ords. perhaps this is your intent. If so, ENY would have to be calulated for every gun, ord, and fuel load out. Of course that could be done, but to Lushes point I think ENY is also modelled based on usage. Loadout based stas would need to be added and tracked overtime to monitor the effect and make adjustments.

From a P-51D perspective, they could go patrolling, but could not further effectively advance the war without ordnance.   Worst case I'd be willing to be Lusche would share his usage spreadsheets with the big boss!
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Lastly, Redbull Redbull,

I haven't spent the time to read the entire thread, but what I am getting from it is you think your pony should be higher ENY when you're not carrying bombs so you can make more perks, or whatever have you?

Not my Pony, I fly the Bravo unless I'm taking ordnance with me.  My wish is not for the Pony, but for all aircraft.  My top VS kills are against the P-51D, followed by the Spit16, then La7, and K4.  None of those aircraft I can remember had bombs/rockets (or saw them drop/jettison)--- why should I be rewarded with extra perks when their overall ability to affect the war was less than if they were carrying ordnance?

[AirLynx]

This is something I had been pondering for a while,
shouldn't the Panzer 4F have a higher ENY if you take the smaller gun?

[danny76]

How can a pony drop below a 5?

I read that as "how can a pony drop below 5k feet."

[danny76]

How can a pony drop below a 5?

I read that as "how can a pony drop below 5k feet."