Russia’s Stealth Fighter Could Match U.S. Jets, Analyst Says

[nrshida]

I only really like the technical aspects of these discussions and find the patriotism / nationalism a bit uncalled for.

Regarding the F-22 not needing to dogfight the YF-23 was rejected despite being faster and more stealthy (canopy notwithstanding) but less manoeuvrable. Presumably this weighed into the selection.

Also there are still many situations were a visual identification is necessary.

[Old Sport]

...In vietnam you had the Sabre, Phantom and the Mig (which was a superior plane) ...
   

[Vinkman]

it's the british cynic in me but to see chest thumping "F-22 fricking awesome clear the skis never get shot down " bull it just winds me up. All major battles and conflicts are lost because they don't credit the enemy. Look at the failure that was the first 8th air-force raids as they thought the B17 would "clear the skis of enemy fighters" . Did it hell . Same can be applied to British failures . Just because it was top of the line  in your arsenal doesn't mean some low tech guy can't beat it . It seems the majority of US citizens and UK too are to impressed with shiny new things . I think Stealth from the start is a dead end road , there is to much to go wrong that could cripple your advantage over your enemy.  It takes just one development  and your war plan is undone. 

The RAF found this in BoB old fighter tactics and formations no longer worked as the enemy didn't play to your strengths.

As missle technology has improved, Air superiority has been achieved through by firing first, and hitting what you fire at. Even though modern jets have tremendous Dogfighting capability, these planes are rarely more than missle firing platforms these days. Satalites, and other "not in the plane" sensing equipment are the ones aquiring targets and vectoring fighters to launch locations. Stealth is a game changer in how effective "Not in the plane" systems can be. Stealth also makes locking on and hitting a target for long range more difficult. As such stealth is here to stay, and those who win in the stealth arena will win in the skies. The next evolution seems to be missle platforms with no pilots, or Drones, because they are smaller and cheaper, and don't put pilots at risk. Combining these technologies will lead to remote-pilotted, smaller, stealth, Drones.

That being the backdrop, the F-22 probably has more capability than it would ever need. That capability comes with a penalty (reliability, cost, numbers). As such I think the F-22 will be the last of the push every envelope fighters for the USA.

[Nathan60]

How man can Russia build? I'd be more worried about China they have the money and thier plane is named The Falcon Eagle. Even if it is  less capable Im sure China cna put more in the air.

[Gman]

Over at "The Aviationist" website, there is a new article talking about Lockheed Martin's new "Cuda" missle, a hyper velocity hit-to-kill air to air missile, that has no warhead, and relies on sheer impact energy from the extreme velocity involved to kill the target.  Sort of like a powered rail gun projectile, just not as fast, and much larger I guess.  Anyway, if it is in service secretly, or at least undergoing successful testing and close to being fielded, this brings up an interesting point regarding the whole "out turn, or out maneuver an incoming missile".  As I had said earlier in the thread, it's a matter of many factors, but distance and velocity seems most important when it comes to a "no escape" type of zone or range with these new missiles.  Obviously with no warhead, they are expecting and are likely having a lot of success with this weapon hitting the target with great frequency, which I'm sure would involve extremely hard maneuvering drones or other targets.  The good news is, that the F35 and F22 can apparently carry 2 to 3x as many of these things as they can Aim120's.

Common Mace and Eagl, spill the secret intel on these new wepons and tell us everything else you know!  I know that there will be airborne lasers, if there isn't already!  PEW PEW PEW! I want to know about the UFO's too!! (j/k).  I would like to hear what the pro's think of this type of a2a missile, and how it relates to maintaining and expanding the advantage the West has over the East in terms of firepower.

[Stellaris]

... how it relates to maintaining and expanding the advantage the West has over the East in terms of firepower.

The cold war has been over for a while now.  If it reassures you, the West still outspends the East by approximately 15:1 on high tech weapons systems.  Unfortunately this has not been particularly well translated into strategic victory in the modern era.

[Vinkman]

The cold war has been over for a while now.  If it reassures you, the West still outspends the East by approximately 15:1 on high tech weapons systems.  Unfortunately this has not been particularly well translated into strategic victory in the modern era.

Hmmm confused by your comment about "strategic victory". It has translated into tactical victory. What is strategic victory?

[Stellaris]

Even tactical victory would require that only historians know who Castro is, that Ho Chi Minh City be still named Hanoi, and that there would be no car bombs in Baghdad and Kabul.  Strategic victory would see an economy unhobbled by war debt, and educational and infrastructure investments that allowed effective competition with China.

But superfighters are cool too.