Do P51s breed sucky pilots??

[deadstikmac]

Being one of those bad 51 sticks..... my humble thoughts'.

1. We fly the planes we "like the way it looks".

2. We are DoDo's NOT Upperclassmen when it comes to BFM. Because of this we lack the understanding of concepts such as "Cornering Speeds" & "Energy Management".

3. We DO NOT know the plane we are fighting against.... we know a little about it from reading up IF the new guys even do that. Most are studying the 51's strengths and weaknesses. Knowing the planes biggest threat from another aircraft standpoint, well would be going a step further into the "Learning Curve" than most new pilots are currently at? Learn them from FLYING the other aircraft. which leads me to....

4. We do not fly other aircraft constantly enough to develop into a well rounded pilot. Instead we follow the true meaning of insanity, craziness or madness is a spectrum of behaviors characterized by certain abnormal mental or behavioral patterns. IE Repeating the same process multiple times expecting different results.

[deadstikmac]

The P51 is a crutch plane.  If a player gets in trouble they can just go nose down and out run anything in the game (and out turn the only thing that can catch it), that usually occurs after they have dropped their 2936 lbs of ords on a hanger.

+1

[BaldEagl]

it was the first AMERICAN plane designed for maneuverability, which makes sense as far as AH goes because not a single American plane in AH maneuvers well without flaps, and even then most of them dog it.

F4F/FM2.  I rest my case.

[uptown]

Always raggin' on the 51s  

The P-51 Delta is the most sexy, beautiful aircraft ever built.  She costs me 15 bucks a month. I do stupid stuff with it. I very well could be a sucky pilot!  



The 51 is not a turn and burn plane. She's not a stall fighter. Speed is her strong suite. Why do people rag on guys flying the plane as it was designed to be flown?
On whether or not it makes someone a sucky pilot....? I don't know, I've seen suckage in all the planes

[titanic3]

F4F/FM2.  I rest my case.

SBD. 

[Saxman]

The 51 is not a turn and burn plane. She's not a stall fighter. Speed is her strong suite. Why do people rag on guys flying the plane as it was designed to be flown?

I think the problem, uptown, is the way the P-51 is often ACTUALLY used in the arenas: Get a lot of altitude, fly through a fight at 500mph, then run for five miles before finally turning around and only if there's no one behind them.

Compare this to what the REALLY nasty Pony sticks do: Enter with a small bit of altitude, engage at a reasonable but not overwhelmingly high speed, and use vertical extensions to keep the fight within about 1500 yards and wear down the target with constant attacks until they're out of juice and can't evade any more, then drop the hammer on them.

Of the two, I am far, FAR more concerned about the second guy, because he's pushing the fight, harder to avoid, and much harder to neutralize than the dweeb zipping through at ludicrous speed. He might pick off one or two unwary targets, but he's really a non-factor, and can be reversed on in about 5 seconds. This is the same thing that keeps 262s as largely only an annoyance in most Main Arena fights rather than a genuine threat (I offer the contrast of the 163 where, due to abuse of engine shutdown and restart, it's basically treated like a Zeke with a warp drive).

This is why I argue the P-51 doesn't BREED poor pilots, but certainly attracts them. They can use their speed to pick off two or so kills for their name in lights, but actually being able to FIGHT in a P-51 takes a fair bit of learning, which people don't pick up with the usual trick you see from the majority of Pony drivers.

[Ripley]

F4F/FM2.  I rest my case.

Last I knew the F4F/FM2 has maneuvering flaps, no? I havent flown one in a while but if I remember correctly...

...so this doesn't go against what I was saying. The F4u is a pretty maneuverable bird too, if u use the flaps.

[katanaso]

There's a bunch of us that will stallfight a 51 versus nearly anything.  Likewise, there are a bunch of guys who like 190 variants that will do the same.  However, the majority in each ride, 51 or 190, regardless of model, don't think that they can 'beat' a better 'turning' plane, so they try a few high speed turns then run away.  They never learn more than that either.

It's not the plane, it's the player that limits his or her self.

[Ripley]

There's a bunch of us that will stallfight a 51 versus nearly anything.  Likewise, there are a bunch of guys who like 190 variants that will do the same.  However, the majority in each ride, 51 or 190, regardless of model, don't think that they can 'beat' a better 'turning' plane, so they try a few high speed turns then run away.  They never learn more than that either.

It's not the plane, it's the player that limits his or her self.

Get into a a stall fight with a Ki84 or a c202 with any 'average' pilot and try to say that again . While I agree that in many cases its about the pilot's skill, the pilot of either of the former planes would have to be terrible in order for a pony to beat them in a fully flaps extended stall fight.

[Ack-Ack]

it was the first AMERICAN plane designed for maneuverability,

No it wasn't. 

ack-ack

[Soulyss]

I think there are a number of factors that go into what becomes known as a "typical" P-51 pilot.  I think first off to an U.S. player it is the most iconic aircraft of WW2, anyone with even a passing knowledge or familiarity with the air war will at least recognize the P-51, if an allied plane is going to appear in just about any WW2 based game the 51 is more the likely going to be included.  It also has a reputation for being a war winner, so if you're a new player the 51 will probably be high on your list of planes to try out.  It's the best right? 

One thing that just about every player has in common, we want to be successful in whatever part of the game interests us. So we have a plane with a sterling reputation (some would say historically overrated) so they take it out, and quickly die. So they start asking around, how do I get better at shooting people down in the 51?  What's the single most common answer?  Don't slow down, keep it fast, BnZ, for a new player who hasn't yet developed a sense of ACM, much less aggressive E fighting (which I think is one of the harder skills to teach/learn) this advice quickly becomes the one pass, haul a** P-51 pilots we see all over the place in the MA. 

Does the 51 breed "sucky" pilots, no, I think the community does to a large extent.

Now that's going to sound pretty critical, but I don't think it really is.  What does the 51 offer the neophyte AH'er?  A plane that offers good survivability (it's fast), a good ordnance load to help take a field (dive bombing is a more easy skill to teach and develop than complex ACM).  In short it gives the new player a chance to contribute in some fashion and maybe not get slaughtered in the process.  At the end of the day that's all each of us is really after.

Do I get frustrated by 51's who don't engage in a fight? Absolutely, but I can say the same about 190's, Typhoons, La-7's. 

Naturally this isn't going to apply to everyone, we have aggressive 51 pilots, we have less aggressive vets  as well who for one reason or another aren't interested in a protracted fight (I do think a 51 can be flown to it's strengths and "fight").    Admittedly it's a generalization with a lot of exceptions but when you look at the overwhelming presence the 51 has in terms of number of sorties I think this covers a lot of it, at least in part.

[mechanic]

great post right there

[RedTop]

Well as one of the more suckier Pony riders I for one like to fly it just because its perty!!! I like Spits cause theyre perty...I like Jugs cause they perty in an ugly way...kind of like the portly woman with a drop ead gorgeous face...lil more butt that youd like but her eyes just melt ya...lol

There are some good pony drivers in the game that can fight in it , in all areas....Steve  , Oldemon , Stang , Fester just to name a few...Some that I forget but I know theres more.

I agree with Soulyss.....on every point....I've been on both ends...running for my life and chasing trying to get a kill....like Soulyss said...we're all just trying to get a kill or 2 or 3 and get back to base for the most part.

[katanaso]

Get into a a stall fight with a Ki84 or a c202 with any 'average' pilot and try to say that again . While I agree that in many cases its about the pilot's skill, the pilot of either of the former planes would have to be terrible in order for a pony to beat them in a fully flaps extended stall fight.

I've done it countless times and come out on top.  So have several others.  I've posted a film of an extended 51D vs c202 fight versus a very good player, hoping people would see an extended rolling scissors fight at the deck and learn from it.

I've been on the losing end too.  For instance, I know that BigR, in a 51, can beat my 38 if he gets saddled up on me.  I also know that I can beat a lot of 38's in a 51 because I know what a 38 can do. 

There are a lot of things that we can do in this game due to the fact that we can control throttle, flaps, and trim without removing our hands from controls. MtnMan made an excellent post in another thread describing such.

One of the keys is to know what the other plane can or cannot do, how it handles, how it gains or dumps speed, and so on.

[Guppy35]

Do keep in mind, that many of the guys ripping on the 51 not turning, are guys that are flying better turning birds.

Poor to average pilots in any bird are going to lose to a good to great stick in a better turning bird if they try and fight that fight.

INK you gotta admit, unless you find a guy like mir who doesn't care if he dies, but lives to push the envelope, it would be silly to try and turn with a Ki-84.  You described OlDemon turning in a 51 with your Hurri.  Again that's just silly as it's fighting the Hurricane's fight.  Unless the Mustang guy is a bend it until it breaks driver, they aren't going to turn with a Hurricane.   

But that describes 99 percent of the pilots in the MA. 

In the end it's about how you want to play the game.    I haven't flown since the latest patch.  Is their an achievement for putting a certain amount of G's on a plane in a turn?