Welcome Screen Logon Blues

[Bizman]

The net is unsafe for the uninitiated and unfortunately Windows 8 appeals to older people that do not have a clue how to protect themselves. Its designed that way.--
So she uses it for a few years if she is really lucky and then throws it away and buys a new one. Someone retrieves it from the bin and BOOM! . . . open book.

Earlier this winter I visited a gypsy family who had found two XP-laptops from a public bin in a nearby village centre, apparently the local collecting point for electric junk. They asked me if I could do something with the passwords to let them use the laptops for regular home use, i.e. Internet surfing. I could, with ease, using a free bootable cd. In Windows, I noticed that the laptops seemingly had been property of some small firm, containing identifiable material such as correspondence, offers etc. Of course I immediately created a new user profile, deleted the old along with personal data and overwrote all "empty" space. Knowing the skills of the new users, I'm sure the files of the previous owner are deleted safe enough. And much better than they were in the bin. So it's not a matter of age.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Earlier this winter I visited a gypsy family who had found two XP-laptops from a public bin in a nearby village centre, apparently the local collecting point for electric junk. They asked me if I could do something with the passwords to let them use the laptops for regular home use, i.e. Internet surfing. I could, with ease, using a free bootable cd. In Windows, I noticed that the laptops seemingly had been property of some small firm, containing identifiable material such as correspondence, offers etc. Of course I immediately created a new user profile, deleted the old along with personal data and overwrote all "empty" space. Knowing the skills of the new users, I'm sure the files of the previous owner are deleted safe enough. And much better than they were in the bin. So it's not a matter of age.

Yes, anyone can be a victim of scammers. They can be very sneaky. For example in Second Life (popular among women) there was a huge incident recently where an Italian hacker created an attack to it - this is how it happened:

He claimed to have created a new special arena for players. But it was on a separate server so you needed to log in it to get access. If players clicked the link he supplied there was a real looking login window IN GAME asking for credentials. Those who gave them got attacked by an automated script which immediately retransmitted the invite in that players name to other players and transferred 3000 dollars of real money from their gaming account to PayPal. If the player had a credit card saved in his/her profile the money/credit was drained and sent to the attacker.

[Chalenge]

So in your opinnion your mother should not be able to handle her affairs online. Nice way to make her old days as difficult as possible. To do banking she'll have to walk to the office and wait in line, I'm sure that's a hoot when you're 80 and tired. I wouldn't want that to my relatives.

She chooses not to use computer, Ripley. I realize there are people that are in her same age group that choose not to be left out and want to learn computers. For some that's a good choice, but look around you. I consider you to be above average intelligence. Not brilliant mind you, but able to learn new things and grasp things with a creative mind. Not everyone is like that. Windows 8 is certainly not for those people. My mother is far above average when it comes to intelligence, but it is her choice not to involve herself in computers. And not everyone should have to.

When I was working as a surveyor I had a project manager that insisted on having the one person on staff that new every shortcut AutoCAD has. I told him that was not wise, but that's what he wanted. So he got this brilliant kid that knew every shortcut and key the program had. The only problem was the kid had zero creativity. If you asked him to build a routine programmatically he could recite syntax and shortcuts but did not have a clue how to put it together and actually do something. The point is not everyone has the same cut of brilliance, and we shouldn't. The world needs ditch diggers too.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

She chooses not to use computer, Ripley. I realize there are people that are in her same age group that choose not to be left out and want to learn computers. For some that's a good choice, but look around you. I consider you to be above average intelligence. Not brilliant mind you, but able to learn new things and grasp things with a creative mind. Not everyone is like that. Windows 8 is certainly not for those people. My mother is far above average when it comes to intelligence, but it is her choice not to involve herself in computers. And not everyone should have to.

When I was working as a surveyor I had a project manager that insisted on having the one person on staff that new every shortcut AutoCAD has. I told him that was not wise, but that's what he wanted. So he got this brilliant kid that knew every shortcut and key the program had. The only problem was the kid had zero creativity. If you asked him to build a routine programmatically he could recite syntax and shortcuts but did not have a clue how to put it together and actually do something. The point is not everyone has the same cut of brilliance, and we shouldn't. The world needs ditch diggers too.

Of course but the way you put it earlyer was akin to YOU telling these people they have no business using computers. I'm in favor for anything that increases computer use, especially for older people because they can be more independent that way. Many old people suffer because they're not able to access the online services others do - for example if you have a prepaid phone connection, often the advertisements tell you "get 50% more time by ordering online" etc... So if Win8 makes computing more approachable to those who haven't dared to do so earlyer I'm all for it.

Unfortunately the turn side is that the rest of us who 'know' to use computers already are forced to relearn the interface. But once you know a couple of tricks such as right clicking the lower left corner for a commonly used function menu or press alt+f4 on your desktop to give a shutdown menu...

[Chalenge]

Of course but the way you put it earlyer was akin to YOU telling these people they have no business using computers. . .

I went back and read what I posted and I dont see that in there, but thanks for coming around! 

[MrRiplEy[H]]

I went back and read what I posted and I dont see that in there, but thanks for coming around! 

It was this quote that I read:

Windows 8 is designed to attract people into computers that have no business using computers.

IMO anyone who is 'attracted to use' as opposed to 'chooses not to' has a business using computers. They may have a learning curve but better having it than not having it. I even gave my 75 year old grandfather a linux laptop to do his business. Unfortunately he soon became blind, I hope it wasn't anything he saw on teh internets! 

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Merry Xmas & A Happy New Year every1  

I was the one (1) who started this thread, & must admit I sincerely appreciated & learned much from the controversy this thread started    For one (1) I followed MrRiplEy's advice re. Windows8 (W8), downloaded it & was briefly lost in what to do next, thereby I started my internet browsing in search for W8, short cuts, tips , etc to further my studious nature.  I was rewarded with tons of info to make my W8 experience pleasurable. Woops no "Start Button", solution 'Start8.com'.

Further search enabled me to locate a choice of menus from Classical, XP, Vista &  Windows7, I selected Windows XP start menu, my all-time favorite with Start Button.   My memory came back as to how everything was setup in XP, I'm happy & quite familiar with
W8, but am studying, online, W8 tutorials to become better versed
in the intricacies of something very new, so far so good & NO problems.  I love W8 & all the info I'm gleaning from it!

Btw, I no longer have any probs with "Windows Logon Screen' thx to
Chalenge's solution to my query.  Hope this helps, education is the key to SUCCESS.

Happy1

Very glad to hear you got your problems sorted out!

[Skuzzy]

I think it is quite comical how the supportive Windows 8 users are having to scour the Internet to learn how to do the simplest of things. 

Sounds like new users to Linux, yet Linux gets a black eye for that very reason.

Funny.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

I think it is quite comical how the supportive Windows 8 users are having to scour the Internet to learn how to do the simplest of things. 

Sounds like new users to Linux, yet Linux gets a black eye for that very reason.

Funny.

Win8 'problems' are far simplyer in nature than typical linux problems. Every development with GUI is going to require a learning process. Otherwise we're going to be stuck to an interface originally designed decades ago.

[Skuzzy]

Win8 'problems' are far simplyer in nature than typical linux problems. Every development with GUI is going to require a learning process. Otherwise we're going to be stuck to an interface originally designed decades ago.

Or, we could actually have something that works better than what Windows 8 brings.

Just because something is new, does not make it better.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Or, we could actually have something that works better than what Windows 8 brings.

Just because something is new, does not make it better.

It seems that Win8 works better for people without prior knowledge about computers. This is a design route they've started since Vista when they started hiding power user options. Ribbon interface was the next step.

Change annoys old users but in the grand scheme of things some people at MS have thought they need to evolve or simply fade away.

[Skuzzy]

It seems that Win8 works better for people without prior knowledge about computers. This is a design route they've started since Vista when they started hiding power user options. Ribbon interface was the next step.

Change annoys old users but in the grand scheme of things some people at MS have thought they need to evolve or simply fade away.

Change annoys most people.  It has less to do with age and more about poor design choices by Microsoft.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Change annoys most people.  It has less to do with age and more about poor design choices by Microsoft.

In the light of the experiences coming from novice users Win8 seems more like a design success than anything else. They should have, however, left the old users a way to opt out from the new interface and not dump it in the hands of 3rd parties.

[Skuzzy]

In the light of the experiences coming from novice users Win8 seems more like a design success than anything else. They should have, however, left the old users a way to opt out from the new interface and not dump it in the hands of 3rd parties.

Again, it has little to do with the age of the person.  I think it is odd how people are suddenly happy to have to use keyboard shortcuts (first, you have to know about them) to access some things where there is not graphical interface available to those utilities.

Old, young, matters not.

There are better ways to do it.  Much better ways.  However, do not hold your breath waiting for Microsoft to do it.

[Bizman]

Win8 'problems' are far simplyer in nature than typical linux problems. Every development with GUI is going to require a learning process.

In that case I should go see a doctor for my brain seems to be petrifying. When I tried Ubuntu for the first time several years ago, I had no major problems to find a device manager, program installer/deinstaller or shutdown button during my first trial, not to mention a bunch of other functions and features. With W8 I would've been in trouble if I hadn't learned some keyboard shortcuts which I consider being "heavy user/pro tricks". The Finnish Fast Guide to Win8 has not been published yet, so the only source for learning the GUI is the Internet. I agree, MS seems to have the basics quite well documented, but there's always the big "but": What if this is your first computer? How to install a mobile broadband device in between the tiles? What if, like it was with my first experience with W8, the mobile broadband only works on GPRS, making using the net a PITA? If the instructions to access the Internet only are in the Internet, what can you do?

Almost every device or even their packages must have warning texts and user's manuals in the language of the country they are being sold in. That doesn't apply to operating systems: If you buy a pc, there's a warning that the plastic bag can be dangerous if it covers your nose and mouth. The manual tells how to place the rig to avoid overheating; it also tells the names and places of every jack and knob. Heck, even my keyboard has a warning sticker on it, saying prolonged use of it can cause injuries. At first boot, you might get a screen telling how wonderful your new computer is. No "Read this carefully before doing anything else with this computer". No safety instructions, or warnings about losing your money, identity, reputation... Just a happy "start exploring!" -at your own risk...