Gonzoville charts current?

[RotBaron]

I've heard differing opinions on whether this website has kept up with the modeling and re-modeling of planes in AH2. With newer versions and beta testing I'd speculate some planes have gone through some changes, furthermore the copyright is '06 on Gonzoville.com and there have been fighters released since then. Does anyone have definitive knowledge that this website is up to date, or out of date?

Here's the link:

http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php

CAUTION: BE CAREFUL IF YOU GOOGLE SEARCH THIS WEBSITE, IF YOU DON'T TYPE THE "VILLE" AT THE END YOU MIGHT GET IN TROUBLE WITH THE WIFE/WORK.

 

Rot

[Scotch]

Out of date.

[bustr]

If someone in the AH community who is respected for his scholership will give me the instructions for testing. I have the time. But, he will have to do the write up. Or I need a jury to submit results to. I will accept needing to re test until the jury feels confident in the numbers.

I seem to be one of those weird people who can RTFM and understand long boring info.

[Lusche]

The data there is current in as much as there has been no general FM update or change since then. Only some planes have been going through some changes when they had been updated individually by HTC, latest example being the Hurricane. Others, like the La-7 had no or only minor performance changes. For most of the popular rides like 51's, Spitfires, 109's, 190s and so on the numbers are still up to date.
Of course, after five or six years, the newer fighters are missing entirely.

[homersipes]

CAUTION: BE CAREFUL IF YOU GOOGLE SEARCH THIS WEBSITE, IF YOU DON'T TYPE THE "VILLE" AT THE END YOU MIGHT GET IN TROUBLE WITH THE WIFE/WORK.

had to check it out , and yes could get you into trouble at work

[RotBaron]

had to check it out , and yes could get you into trouble at work

Lol, I was looking one day with my phone browser, forgot the 'ville' and to my amazement that was not...

[RotBaron]

The data there is current in as much as there has been no general FM update or change since then. Only some planes have been going through some changes when they had been updated individually by HTC, latest example being the Hurricane. Others, like the La-7 had no or only minor performance changes. For most of the popular rides like 51's, Spitfires, 109's, 190s and so on the numbers are still up to date.
Of course, after five or six years, the newer fighters are missing entirely.

Thanks Snailman, I was using this recently and wondering how spits were coming around in less than two turns on the Ki-84. It could be the E-state at which I was flying, but most of the spits have at best 30' better turn radius according to these charts without flaps. In my estimation it would be a much longer sustained turn fight (in a perfect comparison) than what I experienced. Spit 16 is 28' on the Ki84 to be exact in a perfect comparison. I'm aware a perfect comparison rarely exists in the MA, however, I couldn't help but wonder if the Ki-84 data is not correct on Gonzoville. Also, down in the weeds with full flaps the Ki-84 out turns the spits according to Gonzoville's data.

Is there a website where there is up to date info?

Bustr: I'd contribute in any way I could, if you need any help let me know.

TIA   

Rot

[Lusche]

Keep in mind turn radius is only part of the story, turn rate (not shown on that site) plays an important role as well.

See also: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,342945.0.html

[Changeup]

Thanks Snailman, I was using this recently and wondering how spits were coming around in less than two turns on the Ki-84. It could be the E-state at which I was flying, but most of the spits have at best 30' better turn radius according to these charts without flaps. In my estimation it would be a much longer sustained turn fight (in a perfect comparison) than what I experienced. Spit 16 is 28' on the Ki84 to be exact in a perfect comparison. I'm aware a perfect comparison rarely exists in the MA, however, I couldn't help but wonder if the Ki-84 data is not correct on Gonzoville. Also, down in the weeds with full flaps the Ki-84 out turns the spits according to Gonzoville's data.

Is there a website where there is up to date info?

Bustr: I'd contribute in any way I could, if you need any help let me know.

TIA  

Rot

I fly the spit IX and 84 regularly on the deck and I can tell you the 84 cannot outturn the IX flat.  No way, especially both full flapped.  The KI will sustain it longer because of the HP, but if it can be done flat, I'd have to see that one.  Radius and rate are different

[RotBaron]

I fly the spit IX and 84 regularly on the deck and I can tell you the 84 cannot outturn the IX flat.  No way, especially both full flapped.  The KI will sustain it longer because of the HP, but if it can be done flat, I'd have to see that one.  Radius and rate are different

These charts have the 84 out turning the spit9 by 37' no flaps, and the spit9 out turning the 84 by 12' full flaps. I'll have to read up and see how turn rate may be factoring into this.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the spit in this scenario has a kE advantage, then their radius would increase as their rate would be too high to reach their corner velocity. Maybe I don't understand all this yet, but what I seem to gather is that best turn radius is based on corner velocity, and corner velocity is based on the most desirable rate. In other words, to reach this perfect turn radius you must be flying at the most desirable speed to turn the tightest and when you reach those points you will be at the planes corner velocity. I know G's are part of cv, but for simplicity here I've not mentioned them. So far is my line of thinking here on track?

 

[Changeup]

These charts have the 84 out turning the spit9 by 37' no flaps, and the spit9 out turning the 84 by 12' full flaps. I'll have to read up and see how turn rate may be factoring into this.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the spit in this scenario has a kE advantage, then their radius would increase as their rate would be too high to reach their corner velocity. Maybe I don't understand all this yet, but what I seem to gather is that best turn radius is based on corner velocity, and corner velocity is based on the most desirable rate. In other words, to reach this perfect turn radius you must be flying at the most desirable speed to turn the tightest and when you reach those points you will be at the planes corner velocity. I know G's are part of cv, but for simplicity here I've not mentioned them. So far is my line of thinking here on track?

 

I may be thinking wrong but I keep it straight like this but you are certainly getting there:

Faster = larger circle
Slower = smaller circle

Faster = Most effective vertically
Slower = Most effective horizontally

You're trying to make your circles smaller than the other guys while keep your E states as close to his, or bringing his down to yours, or buying yourself time to get yours up to his.

You are correct.  What has happened to you lately is you've engaged Spits that are flying slower than you most likely, thus their circle is smaller.  You'll never get a con to "slow down while you reach your maximum turn rate speed" so you have to make maneuvers that keep you in the game WHILE depleting the KI or increasing your >_____________________________ _______________<insert angles or E fighting advantage.

[MrKrabs]

If someone in the AH community who is respected for his scholership will give me the instructions for testing. I have the time. But, he will have to do the write up. Or I need a jury to submit results to. I will accept needing to re test until the jury feels confident in the numbers.

I seem to be one of those weird people who can RTFM and understand long boring info.

FB$ are going to have their own up on the 1st of the year with updated models...

[nrshida]

I fly the spit IX and 84 regularly on the deck and I can tell you the 84 cannot outturn the IX flat.  No way, especially both full flapped.  The KI will sustain it longer because of the HP, but if it can be done flat, I'd have to see that one.  Radius and rate are different

That's strange, my experience is to the contrary, the variable of the pilot notwithstanding.

[Changeup]

That's strange, my experience is to the contrary, the variable of the pilot notwithstanding.

E judgement may be the pilot variable you're looking for.  The other is flaps.  Most Spit drivers don't like using them because one notch is full so doing the math, the KI drivers will notch-down while fighting while the Spit driver using flaps will always go directly to the edge of stall....in other words, the Spit driver will get slower, quicker if he/she (AKPepprr is masterful at rolling her IX flapped-out) gets to flap speed first.

Next time your on, lets go to the DA.  If you say the KI will do it, I believe you.  I just want to see it so I can learn how to make the KI do it. 

[BaldEagl]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the spit in this scenario has a kE advantage, then their radius would increase as their rate would be too high to reach their corner velocity. Maybe I don't understand all this yet, but what I seem to gather is that best turn radius is based on corner velocity, and corner velocity is based on the most desirable rate. In other words, to reach this perfect turn radius you must be flying at the most desirable speed to turn the tightest and when you reach those points you will be at the planes corner velocity. I know G's are part of cv, but for simplicity here I've not mentioned them. So far is my line of thinking here on track?

 

Think of it like this; you can minimize turn radius by pulling a tighter circle but you have to slow down to do so.  At the extreme you're deep into the stall buffet and pulling any tighter will induce a stall or at least a wiggle.  That's never good in a fight as you'll lose ground catching it.

You can maximize turn rate by achieving corner speed.  This is never the tightest circle you can turn but it will get you through a 360 degree turn faster than your tightest circle will (which is tighter but slower).  You can still fly faster but at a loss of turn rate (i.e. slower through 360 degrees).

Most planes in AH achive maximum sustained turn rates just as you enter the stall buffer (barely sounding).  The trick then is to know when to tigten the turn to go for angles or to loosen the turn to build E (lead or lag pursuit).

Just saw Changeup's post so I'll add this; in a flaps out fight you're already well below your best turn rate and going strictly for angles (unless it's a quick notch in a plane with manouvering flaps).  The reason you use flaps is to control the stall allowing even lower speeds thus tighter turns.  Turn rate likely won't help much in this situation as you'd allow your opponent lead pursuit and a kill shot.  If you recognized a full flaps fight coming soon enough you could open up the turn and set up offset turns then rate would allow you to control the fight from an E perspective.