Arena Etiquette Confusion

[dbh991]

(Air-to-air Fighter combat issue) While in the Late War Main Arena(MA) this morning I engaged with a team mate that appeared to be having difficulty with a con.  They were 1-on-1.  I dispatched the con, at which point my team mate voiced  (literally) "G@d D#mmed noob!" and continued to express his extreme displeasure with me.  Well, I am confused because 1) I have had numerous occasions in the MA where this exact same thing has happened to me.  I didn't mind.  This is war and you help your team mate, right?  Also, expect a 2nd con to join in if *you* are 1-on-1.  No big deal, or so I thought.  2) If one wants to practice 1-on-1 dueling why not go to the Dueling Arena or the Training area?

So I am quite confused by this guy's extreme displeasure with my action.

Closely related issue:  I have seen it posted somewhere, can't find it now, something to the effect that the Dueling Arena(DA) has "devolved into something bad where etiquette is not observed and it's just one big fur ball" or words to that effect.  I don't agree, having spent a lot of time in the DA.  I find the DA as it is to be an excellent way to quickly get in some quality air time to keep my situational awareness and gunnery skills sharp.  I don't mind going 1 vs 2 or more(me being the 1).  That happens in the MA and I appreciate the skills practice.  Besides, if people want to use the DA for private 1-on-1 dogfights that is easy to do by just getting a reasonable distance away from the lake.  (Or take it to the Training area.)  Still on the topic of the DA:  It appears there are times when everyone there agrees to just do 1-on-1 dogfights even on the lake.  Sunday mornings are popular for this I gather.  When one logs in to the DA then one is politely informed it is "1-on-1 time only" and to tune to a channel where everyone in the DA can communicate.  Great, no problem.  Clearly communicated.  I did this a week ago and it was working just fine.  I liked it as a nice change of pace.  But after awhile, after clearly calling out my intention to engage 1v1 a specific aircraft, I was shot down from behind by someone else.  He is an "old hand" at Aces High and far more experienced than I.  He will remain nameless in this post.  I asked him why he did that and his reply was a glib "I felt like it".   

So.  Back to the subject of this post.  I am now thoroughly confused over proper "etiquette" in both the MA and the DA.  I have no desire to make others angry.  But it seems we are not using common sense and playing by the same rules.  I have competed in various activities all my life and hold the concept of "sportsmanship" very highly and would rather lose using proper sportsmanship than win by violating the same.  But it is not possible to maintain sportsmanship when we aren't all playing by the same rules of conduct, in my opinion.

Sorry for what appears to be a bit of a rant, and also sorry if this has been covered before, but I really felt the need to express my frustration and try to get some guidance from those more knowledgeable than me.  I *want* to play by the rules and practice good sportsmanship.  I just don't know what the rules are.  Do I need to call out "Mother May I, Please is it OK if I pull the trigger now?" each time I fly in any arena? 

-Doug

[Soulyss]

You're likely going to get a  several different opinions on this, however what it's worth  my thoughts are this.

If I see a 1v1 happening, regardless of what arena I'm in it seems to me that it would be a common courtesy to ask before jumping in.  Either way a quick "hey to you need help?" is far easier than any other alternative.

[Fish42]

MA is simple.

Fur ball = all fair game.

1v1 or 2v2 a few K clear of every other fight and not critical to save/take base.... Ask on vox if they want help. If you get no response count that as a yes, otherwise respect that players answer.

[Debrody]

-DA or MA, do us a favour and ask before you jump in. Nothings worse when someone is looking for a good fight then when it finally happens, they get interrupted.
-the quality of the DA furball lake engagements is very low. Usually zeeks vs tempests, spiced with 4hogs, its really hard to find a fight what lasts more than 2-3 turns without getting picked, rope-a-doped, etc.
-MA is not for practicing 1v1s, still, you can show your respect towards others by trying to give them a fun, quality fight, when there is a chance given.

I am disillusioned about it at all, still, consider my words.

[dbh991]

You're likely going to get a  several different opinions on this, however what it's worth  my thoughts are this.

If I see a 1v1 happening, regardless of what arena I'm in it seems to me that it would be a common courtesy to ask before jumping in.  Either way a quick "hey to you need help?" is far easier than any other alternative.

That sounds reasonable and thank you for the reply.  Problem is no one contacts *me* before jumping in.  So that would be a one-way-street in my experience.

-Doug

[dbh991]

MA is simple.

Fur ball = all fair game.

1v1 or 2v2 a few K clear of every other fight and not critical to save/take base.... Ask on vox if they want help. If you get no response count that as a yes, otherwise respect that players answer.

Please see my reply to Soulyss.

Also, considering realism in the MA.  Is this how WWII fighter pilots behaved?

-Doug

[Soulyss]

That sounds reasonable and thank you for the reply.  Problem is no one contacts *me* before jumping in.  So that would be a one-way-street in my experience.

-Doug

That's probably true unfortunately, I look at it this way though.  The only person I can control is me.  I can try my best to either be what I hope is a positive influence on the game or the community or a negative one regardless of what other people are doing.

Is that to say I haven't  jumped a 1v1?  Probably not, I can't think of specific case off the top of my head but I'm sure it's happened.  I do try to ask when I see a distinct 1v1 happening though.

[Fish42]

Please see my reply to Soulyss.

Also, considering realism in the MA.  Is this how WWII fighter pilots behaved?

-Doug

It would shock me if there were not a few hotshot aces in WWII who did not call out aircraft that they wanted for their own.

[Soulyss]

It would shock me if there were not a few hotshot aces in WWII who did not call out aircraft that they wanted for their own.

I recall reading a anecdote from the 475th unit history where Thomas McGuire chewed out someone on radio for shooting down "his" target.  Either way IMHO it doesn't matter, there is a huge difference in decision making between war and a video game.

 

[ink]

1-this is not "war"  war is no fun
2-there are no "rules"
3-who cares what others do in a game...all that you can control is yourself
4-if someone else does something does that make it "OK"?


me personally I wont jump in a 1vs1...unless the guy is asking for help...even then sometimes depending on the person I wont jump in....yet all the time I get guys jumping in on my 1vs1...when that happens I just break off and let the con deal with that new threat.....

I see lots of people vulching still don't make me want to vulch....

so my advice is play the game the way you want....just remember..... how you play is how you will be known.

[dbh991]

It would shock me if there were not a few hotshot aces in WWII who did not call out aircraft that they wanted for their own.

That reminds me of an episode of Baa Baa Black Sheep where the hot-shot P-38 ace told his wing man to stay away so he could get the kill.  The ace died.  Of course that was just a TV show story.  But the point remains.  What are are we really trying to do in the MA?  I appreciate help any time I get it.  No permission required.    I can always go to the training area or find an away-from-lake spot in the DA if I want privacy for practice or ego or whatever.

-Doug

[Bizman]

I *want* to play by the rules and practice good sportsmanship.  I just don't know what the rules are.  Do I need to call out "Mother May I, Please is it OK if I pull the trigger now?" each time I fly in any arena? 

-Doug

There are no rules by HTC other than those of how to behave. Special events do have rules, but that's another thing.

During these years playing AH I've learned that there are unwritten rules inheriting from older flying sims than AH. People who have played those games know them and would like live by the tradition. Underaged players of today might not even have been born when the "rules" were vaguely agreed by the early pioneers of online cartoon piloting. Today the rules - or how someone interprets them - only pop up in rants, either here on the bbs or in-game on 200 or pm'd. 

[The Fugitive]

That sounds reasonable and thank you for the reply.  Problem is no one contacts *me* before jumping in.  So that would be a one-way-street in my experience.

-Doug

As my Mother use to say, "If they jumped off a bridge, would you?". In other words, if they play with out class and respect should you?, it's your choice, but I try to choose the class/respect side of game play.

Please see my reply to Soulyss.

Also, considering realism in the MA.  Is this how WWII fighter pilots behaved?

-Doug

Aces High is a game. The only thing it has in common with WWII is we fly toys modeled like the equipment used in WWII. That being said, in a game your looking to have fun. If fun is finally finding a good 1 on 1 fight and someone dives in a ends it by picking one of you it is no longer fun. Ask before you pick.

That reminds me of an episode of Baa Baa Black Sheep where the hot-shot P-38 ace told his wing man to stay away so he could get the kill.  The ace died.  Of course that was just a TV show story.  But the point remains.  What are are we really trying to do in the MA?  I appreciate help any time I get it.  No permission required.    I can always go to the training area or find an away-from-lake spot in the DA if I want privacy for practice or ego or whatever.

-Doug

Like TV, no body dies here. If a guy wants to go out and fight alone it's not a big deal. While I like flying with outs, more often than not very few of my squadies fly at the time I do and I end up flying alone.

When I go into the DA (furball lake) I fully expect to be picked, or have my fight ruined by guys "stealing" my kills as I have never seen any class in there. Of course I expect  the same in the MAs as well. I prefer the MAs because a DA fight is a different type of fight. DA fights are often low fuel, uber monster planes dashing around for quick kills. The Mas have other considerations involved, wider variety of planes, and fuel/E conditions. Opening merges are different as you don't know what the "agenda" is for the other guy, is he on a mission? is he hunting? does he want a good fight? <---- this is the guy I spend my time looking for.

[Copprhed]

Those of us who try to call our 1v1s in the DA usually accept that eventually the situation will devolve into anarchy. That's when I usually leave, because along with the furball comes the arguments and flaming. Take a win with honor and a loss with grace. I also concur with Debrody, that when you do run into a good hands sweating, neck aching 1v1, it's really infuriating to have it interrupted. I always try to call off a teammate when I can.

[Karnak]

I ask before jumping in if it is a 1v1 or 2v2.

If it is a big furball melee it is fair game.

I can't control what others do so I don't stress about it.  All we have online is our reputation and that is solely based on how we behave and what we say, both of which we have complete control of.