Author Topic: Engine location  (Read 2376 times)

Offline MK-84

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Engine location
« on: January 02, 2013, 07:20:00 PM »
In theory would putting jet engines immediately aft of a wings slipstream help to increase lift or improve airflow to an engine?  Could a jet engine "suck" air across a wing?

Offline nrshida

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Re: Engine location
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2013, 08:23:00 PM »
There are a few designs which blow the thrust across the top of the wings to increase lift:-



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Offline bozon

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Re: Engine location
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2013, 03:46:43 AM »
There are a few designs which blow the thrust across the top of the wings to increase lift:-
The problem with this design solution is that it results in a very ugly plane.
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

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Offline RedBull1

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Re: Engine location
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2013, 03:47:52 AM »
The problem with this design solution is that it results in a very ugly plane.
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Offline nrshida

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Re: Engine location
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2013, 04:54:03 AM »
The problem with this design solution is that it results in a very ugly plane.

Yes. The elusive connection between form and function.

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Offline bozon

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Re: Engine location
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2013, 07:45:39 AM »
Yes. The elusive connection between form and function.


I meant more like the connection between function and fashion. I will not dare to be seen in public holding the stick of such a plane...  :P
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline hitech

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Re: Engine location
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2013, 09:58:21 AM »
There are a few designs which blow the thrust across the top of the wings to increase lift:-

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

Are you sure thats why the design choice was made?

I would think it has more to do with ground clearance working out of small narrow airfields.

Hitech

Offline earl1937

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Re: Engine location
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2013, 10:28:08 AM »
The problem with this design solution is that it results in a very ugly plane.
:airplane: And a very high loss of wing lift! I would think this aircraft did not make production because of poor stall performance and in a "Deep Stall", undoubtedly the elevator would lose control much more quicker than a "clean" wing. Most designers want the wing to stall from the fuselage outward, where you can maintain wings level attitude, until the whole wing stops producing lift, hence you will get a aircraft with straight ahead stall feature. Some of the high performance aircraft actually had a different angle of incidence at the fuselage than at the wing tip, just to produce a straight ahead stall. Some aircraft had "stall strips" installed on the wing to force the wing to stall first in certain area's to promote a stright ahead stall. Anything on top of a wing, other than the wing surface, is going to effect the performance of the wing!
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Engine location
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2013, 11:44:37 AM »
Hitech is right that the engine placement is primarily to avoid fod from being sucked into the engines. However, on the An-72 and Boeing YC-14 the Coandă effect makes the jet exhaust "stick" to the flaps and bend down towards the ground, increasing STOL performance.

The most impressive implementation of this design was perhaps NASA's QSRA prototype, here in carrier trials: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_eDutgh4IU
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Offline nrshida

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Re: Engine location
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2013, 12:57:32 PM »
Are you sure thats why the design choice was made?

I would think it has more to do with ground clearance working out of small narrow airfields.

Hitech



Yes for short field operation I thought.

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Offline nrshida

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Re: Engine location
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2013, 04:16:13 PM »
The most impressive implementation of this design was perhaps NASA's QSRA prototype, here in carrier trials: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_eDutgh4IU

Nice. I've always liked this one and think it should be immediately added to Aces High and armed  :old:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buh7_xLG4ZE
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Offline smoe

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Re: Engine location
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2013, 04:42:36 PM »
Having the engines at that location would most likely reduce objects from getting sucked in. Generally speaking having wing mounted engines will reduce overall plane weight. Anything mounted on the wings will act as a cantilever. After the WWII the latest craze was to mount fuel tanks near the wing tips like the P-80 for maximum cantilever effect. What the cantilever effect does is reduce the amount of weight and structural strength needed at the wing roots.

Offline FTJR

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Re: Engine location
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2013, 09:30:34 PM »

Yes for short field operation I thought.



I would imagine its more for unprepared fields, i.e keep the engines away from the dirt and the stones and all the nasty stuff that engines dont like.
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Offline nrshida

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Re: Engine location
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2013, 09:33:13 PM »
Yes also, but the original question was about increasing lift.  :old:

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Offline FTJR

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Re: Engine location
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2013, 10:08:07 PM »
Yes also, but the original question was about increasing lift.  :old:


You mean this thread is not going to diverge like every other ? Dam. :rolleyes:

I stand corrected.
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