HF Flight Model Arena

[FLS]

So in reality you're also flying 'by the seat of your pants' when fighting and not checking the wingtips. I haven't paid much attention to the coordination before (on the other hand it didn't stop me from ranking high fighter/attack rankings starting from 1 either). I think I'll practise it now, that would explain my bad E retention in knife fights. Twisty stick however is not the best tool for this. It's great for tail-snap shots etc. violent manouvers but not much more.

Flying seat of the pants refers to feeling the aircraft through the seat. It only works when the seat is moving. In Aces High it's all aauditory and visual cues like looking over the nosse or wingtips or tail. Earl posted a drill in this thread that you can do to develop the habit of adding rudder as you roll. If you practice enough you'll do it automatically in a dogfight.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Flying seat of the pants refers to feeling the aircraft through the seat. It only works when the seat is moving. In Aces High it's all aauditory and visual cues like looking over the nosse or wingtips or tail. Earl posted a drill in this thread that you can do to develop the habit of adding rudder as you roll. If you practice enough you'll do it automatically in a dogfight.

Adding rudder automatically is exactly flying through the seat of the pants as far as AH goes. I've kept track of the ball lately in a few sorties and centering it is far from adding rudder to the way you turn to. At least I tend to push the plane in all sorts of directions while fighting.

[katanaso]

Seeing this at work in films would be a great benefit.

I try it all the time, but I'm Mr. Heavyfoot on the pedals, or so it seems.  In a nimble plane, even the most minute movement throws the ball way out of center.  In a bomber, it's much easier.

[FLS]

Adding rudder automatically is exactly flying through the seat of the pants as far as AH goes. I've kept track of the ball lately in a few sorties and centering it is far from adding rudder to the way you turn to. At least I tend to push the plane in all sorts of directions while fighting.

Centering the ball in flight, other than turns, is generally done with rudder trim. You'll notice the trim required changes with speed. You can do this automatically with combat trim turned on or by using auto level trim or auto angle trim when your speed is stabiliized. If this isn't clear I can illustrate and demonstrate it in the TA if you're interested.

Seeing this at work in films would be a great benefit.

I try it all the time, but I'm Mr. Heavyfoot on the pedals, or so it seems.  In a nimble plane, even the most minute movement throws the ball way out of center.  In a bomber, it's much easier.

Seeing this at work in films would be a great benefit.

I try it all the time, but I'm Mr. Heavyfoot on the pedals, or so it seems.  In a nimble plane, even the most minute movement throws the ball way out of center.  In a bomber, it's much easier.

Have you tried scaling the rudder response?

[muzik]

Seeing this at work in films would be a great benefit.

I try it all the time, but I'm Mr. Heavyfoot on the pedals, or so it seems.  In a nimble plane, even the most minute movement throws the ball way out of center.  In a bomber, it's much easier.

That's because you don't have any physical cues to go by and I would bet that everyone in game is the same way.

[katanaso]

Have you tried scaling the rudder response?

Yeah, it's slightly scaled, say from 80% on the left-most band to 100% on the 3rd from last band, with a gradual curve.  I dampened it a bit too.

I'll play with it some more to see what I can accomplish for better results.

With the scaling I currently have, it's very touchy in a 51.  In a 38, it's not that bad.  In a 17, it's easy to control.  Trying to keep it centered actually reminds me of when we first tried WB and AH after AW, and the 'bounciness' was talked about. 

[Wiley]

You might want to scale it a bit more in the center.  If memory serves I scaled mine heavily for the first 4 or 5 bands.  That really helped me for fine tuning where the nose is pointing.

The thought process behind it was having it finely controllable near the middle, with full scaling toward the outside.  Generally I don't find fine input all that useful once I get past a certain amount of throw.  I'm usually trying to do something that I want a lot of rudder for if I've pushed the pedal that far.

Wiley.

[FLS]

Yeah, it's slightly scaled, say from 80% on the left-most band to 100% on the 3rd from last band, with a gradual curve.  I dampened it a bit too.

I'll play with it some more to see what I can accomplish for better results.

With the scaling I currently have, it's very touchy in a 51.  In a 38, it's not that bad.  In a 17, it's easy to control.  Trying to keep it centered actually reminds me of when we first tried WB and AH after AW, and the 'bounciness' was talked about. 

I'd suggest starting with default rudder scaling for fighters. You can always set different scalings to different modes so you can switch between 2 or 3  settings.

Typically I trim for max speed for dive bombing or cruising speed for general flying and just use the rudder pedals for takeoff, adverse yaw, skidding and slipping, or if I'm shooting or bombing out of trim.

[Ack-Ack]

I have my rudders scaled the same as my elevators.

ack-ack

[katanaso]

Thanks guys.  I'll change it tonight and comment on how it works for me. 

[doright]

Well, I started this thread out different, but I like where the discussion has ended up. Make better pilots out of all of us.

[colmbo]

I wouldn't agree it's an advantage in most situations because the set up and firing of rockets and bombs constitute less than 3 percent of your flying time per sortie.

If the ball is out of center the airplane is yawed.  If it's yawed you're presenting the side of the airplane to the slipstream which means more drag.  How can reducing drag (saving energy) not be a good thing?  Except of course those times when you want to bleed E -- I just find the more common issue is being short on E so I like to conserve as much as I can.

If someone wants to let the tail wag around behind them that's fine.  As I posted earlier the advantage to being anal about coordination probably won't make any big difference.  IMO you do gain a minute amount, it is the way airplanes are meant to be flown so for me I'm going to be stomping rudder for the same reason I land on the center line and fly final on speed even when solo in the airplane --- it's just the right thing to do. 

<S>

[SkyRock]

I have my rudders scaled the same as my elevators.

ack-ack

+1   

[MrRiplEy[H]]

If the ball is out of center the airplane is yawed.  If it's yawed you're presenting the side of the airplane to the slipstream which means more drag.  How can reducing drag (saving energy) not be a good thing?  Except of course those times when you want to bleed E -- I just find the more common issue is being short on E so I like to conserve as much as I can.

If someone wants to let the tail wag around behind them that's fine.  As I posted earlier the advantage to being anal about coordination probably won't make any big difference.  IMO you do gain a minute amount, it is the way airplanes are meant to be flown so for me I'm going to be stomping rudder for the same reason I land on the center line and fly final on speed even when solo in the airplane --- it's just the right thing to do. 

<S>

You're absolutely right and this is something I never thought about before. I did notice how some players were able to retain E incredibly better (I remember one certain fight in C202 vs C202 against Leviathan for example, he zoomed like a sick puppy after turning with me and I just had no chance of following).

Now the only question is am I willing to spend time and effort in learning the pedals or will I try to adapt using the twisty stick. The twisty aiming is in my spine after 10+ years of AH/WB.

[Wiley]

Now the only question is am I willing to spend time and effort in learning the pedals or will I try to adapt using the twisty stick. The twisty aiming is in my spine after 10+ years of AH/WB.

Everybody's different.  I know for myself, pedals made a huge difference.  They allowed me to isolate what I'm doing with stick and rudder much better, and allowed me much finer input on rudder.  I'd only had about 6 months on the twisty before I got pedals, so it could be a completely different thing for someone who's been at it for that long.

Wiley.