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Author Topic: Requesting Two New Bombers  (Read 3097 times)

Offline icepac

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Re: Requesting Two New Bombers
« Reply #45 on: February 19, 2013, 08:52:57 AM »
The warbirds main arena had AI formations of either Do17 or He111 and a lot of guys flew around and shot them up for score because they had no defensive gunners.

But.....you could attach as a gunner.....which is what I did.

Wait for the scoremonger to slowly come up trying to shoot at point blank range to keep his hit percentage high and then unload into the side of his cockpit from a plane next to the one he's shooting.

Awesome fun.

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Offline shoresroad

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Re: Requesting Two New Bombers
« Reply #46 on: February 21, 2013, 07:31:55 PM »
Woo Hoo!!!  The He-111 was just added!!! :banana:

Ok, now everybody chant: Do 217, Do 217, Do 217...
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Requesting Two New Bombers
« Reply #47 on: February 21, 2013, 07:35:34 PM »
Quote from: shoresroad on February 21, 2013, 07:31:55 PM
Woo Hoo!!!  The He-111 was just added!!! :banana:

Ok, now everybody chant: Do 217, Do 217, Do 217...
Ju188, Ju188, Ju188...
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Offline Fish42

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Re: Requesting Two New Bombers
« Reply #48 on: February 21, 2013, 07:42:19 PM »
Quote from: Karnak on February 21, 2013, 07:35:34 PM
Ju188, Ju188, Ju188...

Wellington, Wellington, Wellington...




No not that one
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Offline Volron

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Re: Requesting Two New Bombers
« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2013, 07:45:34 PM »
 :lol
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Offline Megalodon

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Re: Requesting Two New Bombers
« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2013, 09:36:11 PM »
Quote from: Karnak on February 21, 2013, 07:35:34 PM
Ju188, Ju188, Ju188...
He177, He177, He177...
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Offline jag88

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Re: Requesting Two New Bombers
« Reply #51 on: February 21, 2013, 09:54:09 PM »
Quote from: Megalodon on February 21, 2013, 09:36:11 PM
He177, He177, He177...

+1 +1 +1...

(Its faster than a Ju-188... and meaner looking)
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Requesting Two New Bombers
« Reply #52 on: February 22, 2013, 09:03:51 AM »
Quote from: jag88 on February 21, 2013, 09:54:09 PM
+1 +1 +1...

(Its faster than a Ju-188... and meaner looking)
And yet it was vastly inferior....
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Requesting Two New Bombers
« Reply #53 on: February 22, 2013, 11:41:27 AM »
Wellington or Il-4 makes the most sense now.  I'd love to see the Wellington, but the Soviets are missing a level bomber and the Il-4 was their workhorse bomber.
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Offline caldera

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Re: Requesting Two New Bombers
« Reply #54 on: February 22, 2013, 12:03:01 PM »
Wellington, SM-79, Do-17, Il-4, Pe-2, H8K and the hella-cool Ventura get my vote.

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Offline jag88

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Re: Requesting Two New Bombers
« Reply #55 on: February 22, 2013, 05:11:05 PM »
Quote from: Karnak on February 22, 2013, 09:03:51 AM
And yet it was vastly inferior....

Vastly?  How so? For starters the He-177 was faster, carried a heavier load and had a longer range... sadly, in spite of its good looks and better defensive armament, performance-wise the Ju-188 was not much of an improvement over the Ju-88 to warrant replacing it in the production line, which is why so few of them were made and all the chips placed in the Ju-388.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Requesting Two New Bombers
« Reply #56 on: February 22, 2013, 10:41:59 PM »
Ju188A-1 could do better than 330mph, a substantial improvement over the Ju88.  The problem wasn't that it wasn't a big improvement, it was that the Germans were so pressed for production they couldn't spare the time to retool their production lines.  That wasn't just a German thing either, big improvements to things like the Lancaster, P-38 and F6F were passed over due to the production delays that would have been incurred.

The Ju188 was superior to the He177 because when you sent 20 Ju188s on a mission with no enemy opposition you could reasonably expect that more than 12 of them would actually complete it whereas not so much with the He177.  Yes, a higher percentage of those He177s that didn't suffer mechanical failures would survive, but if you are looking are overall failure to complete the mission the winner is clear.
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Offline jag88

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Re: Requesting Two New Bombers
« Reply #57 on: February 23, 2013, 01:06:26 PM »
Quote from: Karnak on February 22, 2013, 10:41:59 PM
Ju188A-1 could do better than 330mph, a substantial improvement over the Ju88.  The problem wasn't that it wasn't a big improvement, it was that the Germans were so pressed for production they couldn't spare the time to retool their production lines.  That wasn't just a German thing either, big improvements to things like the Lancaster, P-38 and F6F were passed over due to the production delays that would have been incurred.

The Ju188 was superior to the He177 because when you sent 20 Ju188s on a mission with no enemy opposition you could reasonably expect that more than 12 of them would actually complete it whereas not so much with the He177.  Yes, a higher percentage of those He177s that didn't suffer mechanical failures would survive, but if you are looking are overall failure to complete the mission the winner is clear.

Problem is performance data varies wildly, I have often seen 310mph for the 188, barely 15mph over the 88 and less than the later S models, that is a modest improvement at best.

You seem to be stuck with the idea that the He-177 was extremely unreliable, that was not the case by mid-late 1944 when most problems had been fixed or mitigated by improved logistics and training.  Do I really need to start quoting readiness figures again?  It gets tiresome when people do not respond in kind.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Requesting Two New Bombers
« Reply #58 on: February 23, 2013, 01:22:41 PM »
Depends on if it is a Ju188E with the stopgap engines or a Ju188A with the engines it was intended to have.  The airframe was ready before the intended engines had been fully developed.  Consequently the Ju188E is notably slower than the Ju188A.
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Offline Torquila

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Re: Requesting Two New Bombers
« Reply #59 on: February 23, 2013, 01:32:47 PM »
I say add the ju388!
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