Any Fw190-A8 ace out there?

[Krusty]

Agree with the assertion that there is no up-armor or extra armor on the A-8 compared with the A-5. Historically there absolutely was, hence the extra weight.

Mostly just a highly specialized sturmbock variant. Most did not have it. So we have one of the rarest weights for an A-8 but none of the benefits, and the worst performing. If we had the right weights, ours would be a bit more responsive and nimble. I'm not saying it would be an A-5, but it would be closer to that, than what we currently have.

[Babalonian]

This is demonstrably not true. I, and other pilots that have flown the A8 and the A5 excessively have deemed there is no extra armor added. In fact it has all the weight but none of the armor. If it had the armor modeled, it would never lose guns or engine oil due to return fire. It loses oil almost always. It has a glass jaw. This is absolute evidence that the extra armor is not present.

It's really no more durable than the A-5 variant. It can take a few solid hits if you're lucky, though the same can be said for many a plane in this game. Many a time it will go down in 1 burst from your attacker, if the attacker's aim is true.

You will find you lose your cannons regularly, you lose your oil almost always, and you can get pilot wounds very freely, when flying the 190A-8. PWs aren't as bad as, say, the tempest or the mossie, but higher than I get in 109s and the like.


As for dogfighting in the A8: It is a labor of love. You have to really love the plane, or really hate yourself, to dogfight in it a lot. That is to say, it has its own little style. You can BnZ in it all you like, and definitely get kills, but that's not what I'm talking about when I say dogfight. I mean get in, mix it up in a crowd, and repeatedly approach the stall while working for a perfect snapshot.

As an overall fighter it is deadly if it lands a shot on you, but this includes picks, bounces, BnZs, vulches, afk-deaths, look-up-and-see-a-plane-passing-and-squeaze-the-trigger-to-kill-it, and all manner of MA engagements that won't really stress the airframe like a tight furball will. For all of the former, it can be fun. For that latter category, it is as I described above: more for love of the plane than enjoyment of its capabilities.

A battle of here-say you say!?



I <insert big word> disagree.  I suspect, its wing, cowl and pilot armor is notably greater than that of the A5 or D9 for comparison - somewhat how it should be for the specific model HTC modeled.

I agree it differs in the wing area though in that it is not focused on the leading edge as it should be, rather it seems to be a "blanket" effect in the model.  The inner-wing halves seem to be the most inconsistent of the lot, taking almost a surreal amount of damage (IE: from .50-cal weapons) before being blown off.

You're a fool to base it off individual components lost in the wing if you think you know the code intimate enough to know its an accurate gauge of measurement to the wings structural state.

Its tail is also in my experiences lately more resilient than a Dora's in AH, but I would need to experiment a bit to know it its as durable or less than the A-5's or F-8's.

So, knowing its not "realistically" modeled with regards to sustained damage to the wings, but (I argue vehemently through experience) that it is still undoubtedly more resilient than the A-5 and D-9 in AH, what are you carrying on about now Krusty and with what proof?

[Babalonian]

Thanks for the information.

I'm most interested in "what to do" when a Spit, La7, P51, Typhoon gets you low and maybe slow. Given the fact the I usually go with the 30mm pack, is there any chance to get dirty with them and kill'em?

Not even the rolling scissor seems to work as much as expected, due to the fact that once the A8 is slow it loves falling like a dead pig.

A Dora can offer some tricks in order to turn the fite and kill an enemy with more energy. And, moreover, if you can't manage to turn the close fite in the end, at least you can get away.

But I can't find the way to turn the tables in an A8.

Well, as I am from Europe, hope to find some of the guys you suggested and ask them for tips. 

You gave some nasty examples for having on your tail, first tip I have is when you see these type of aircraft in the area, prioritise them or don't get down n dirty/slow until after they do or fall-back and climb up above them out of icon range.

Second part about scissors in the 190s, you need to understand that you need to control the scissors and not the con.  What I mean by this is you need to turn (roll) and pull before the con does.  You can outroll nearly everything in a 190, but it isn't the best at turning in a pull.  At this point you need to again take charge of the fight and decide if you're going to extend, or force an overshoot, or simply try the patience of your pursuer until they make a mistake.  The A8 can outdive many aircraft (not all, but many you will encounter), look for an opportunity in your rolling melle to escape.  It has a decent rudder and cutting the throttle and doing some cross control can slow you down faster than many aircraft, forcing an overshoot.  If you saved some speed you should be able to get a good bead on them as they pass, otherwise now it gets tricky because you can either run or think about how to cope with the con next after he loops around.  Try to keep your speed at greater than 250 but less than 350 when you get a second to recover between these passes or force the overshoot so you have ample maneuvering capability.

When you have to be defensive, again use the roll rate, think lowest profile to your shooter(s) and in what direction to deprive them further of the shot or coming around on your 6.

[Krusty]

You're wrong on the damage model, babs. Sorry, just wrong. It does not soak up amazing amounts of ammo, and it does not have stronger parts than the A-5.

This isn't hear-say. This is years of observation. I've been flying the Fw190s since just after AH came out of beta.

[Debrody]

Kovel,
you know what to do in a D9; the A8 is basically the same, but slower and even heavyer.

[Kovel]

Kovel,
you know what to do in a D9; the A8 is basically the same, but slower and even heavyer.

Thanks Debrody, that answer clarifies a lot.
 

[mthrockmor]

Depends on the variant you want to fly. If it is the A5 then Duk190, MrKillu2, Boo, Kappa and a couple others. If it is the Dora, Pervert is the ubber stick but he doesn't care much for mentoring, I've tried. The A8 seems to be the middle-child in more ways than one. I know Save (in-game name) flys it frequently.

My take on the 190s, being a proud member of the Butcher Bird Mafia:
The A5 is the purest fighter of them all. Great in boom and zoom and if you find yourself in the weeds on the deck it is the most maneuverable of all 190s. It is the lightest of the 190s, great engine for acceleration, more than fast enough at all altitudes if you fly it smart. Brilliant in a dive. Above 250knts turns with anyone and surprises most, which helps with tallying up kills. And pretty good in a stall fight when needed.

The Dora is the fastest, great acceleration, slowest roll rate of the three though still faster than any other bird out there. Great fuel range as well, pretty good up high though mostly in the 15k range. Due to its longer nose I find it to have less stability as a gun platform, which translates into less accurate shots.

I sense that people fly the A8 because it can carry the 30mm and that makes it seem ubber. At some altitudes it is slower than the earlier designed and built A5, doesn't turn as well, heavier, etc. The real question for the A8 is one, do you want to use the 30mm or not. If so, fly it. If not fly the A5.

The Ta-152 is a different discussion altogether. The F8 is the ground attack version of the 190.

All in all, I vote Fw-190A5 as the best of the bunch, overall.

PS If you set it up right and get your accuracy worked out you should fly with the 2x20mm package of the A5. The 4x20mm sounds fun, though it takes away from your ability to maneuver, with limited addition in hitting power.

[Delirium]

You're wrong on the damage model, babs. Sorry, just wrong. It does not soak up amazing amounts of ammo, and it does not have stronger parts than the A-5.

This isn't hear-say. This is years of observation. I've been flying the Fw190s since just after AH came out of beta.

Krusty, your years of observation are still subjective, no matter how you attempt to quantify it. The only real test I've seen the community perform that held any water is the one that Pervert had done with a single .50 cal vs his 190D's radiator. That would be a great place to start and (if memory serves) it helped Pervert get the damage modeling on the 190D.

[Babalonian]

Depends on the variant you want to fly. If it is the A5 then Duk190, MrKillu2, Boo, Kappa and a couple others. If it is the Dora, Pervert is the ubber stick but he doesn't care much for mentoring, I've tried. The A8 seems to be the middle-child in more ways than one. I know Save (in-game name) flys it frequently.

My take on the 190s, being a proud member of the Butcher Bird Mafia:
The A5 is the purest fighter of them all. Great in boom and zoom and if you find yourself in the weeds on the deck it is the most maneuverable of all 190s. It is the lightest of the 190s, great engine for acceleration, more than fast enough at all altitudes if you fly it smart. Brilliant in a dive. Above 250knts turns with anyone and surprises most, which helps with tallying up kills. And pretty good in a stall fight when needed.

The Dora is the fastest, great acceleration, slowest roll rate of the three though still faster than any other bird out there. Great fuel range as well, pretty good up high though mostly in the 15k range. Due to its longer nose I find it to have less stability as a gun platform, which translates into less accurate shots.

I sense that people fly the A8 because it can carry the 30mm and that makes it seem ubber. At some altitudes it is slower than the earlier designed and built A5, doesn't turn as well, heavier, etc. The real question for the A8 is one, do you want to use the 30mm or not. If so, fly it. If not fly the A5.

The Ta-152 is a different discussion altogether. The F8 is the ground attack version of the 190.

All in all, I vote Fw-190A5 as the best of the bunch, overall.

PS If you set it up right and get your accuracy worked out you should fly with the 2x20mm package of the A5. The 4x20mm sounds fun, though it takes away from your ability to maneuver, with limited addition in hitting power.

I feel the 4x20mm pacakge for the A8 is often overlooked.  It's a great package and the one I choose 99% of the time, I particularly value that it comes with good amounts of ammo.  I'm 50/50 with useing the 30mm on buffs or the 20mm.  Also, I suspect the 30mm outer wing cannons are more suseptable to being knocked out by damage than the 20mm outer cannons, it seems common to loose one even from scattered/unconcentrated enemy fire (I avoid deacking or attacking bunkers with the30mm package mostly because of this fragile tendancy, followed closely by running out of ammo too soon).

I really (really really REALLY) wish we had an 190F with 4 cannons (preferabley 20mm), if it had that capability it would replace half my A-8 sorties currently.

[ntrudr]

I have been able to get most planes to over shoot once and maybe twice when caught low with some speed left, but the A8 looses so much E in a violent scissor, and that is what you need to do to get them out of sequence, that a 51 or lala or 109 or spit will almost always catch up to you again and then you are so E depleted you either get shot down or stall into the ground.  You may get 1 passing shot as they cross your nose, but if you pull too hard to get it on them, you kiss the ground.  It seems all the 190 series has some flaw modeled into them, and then you hear the whiners when you do manage to out scissor and kill them complain about the roll rate being to high.

I flew the A8 for years, then the Dora for years now the TA152 for about 6 months.  I love them all.

[Agent360]

Thanks for the information.

I'm most interested in "what to do" when a Spit, La7, P51, Typhoon gets you low and maybe slow. Given the fact the I usually go with the 30mm pack, is there any chance to get dirty with them and kill'em?

Not even the rolling scissor seems to work as much as expected, due to the fact that once the A8 is slow it loves falling like a dead pig.

A Dora can offer some tricks in order to turn the fite and kill an enemy with more energy. And, moreover, if you can't manage to turn the close fite in the end, at least you can get away.

But I can't find the way to turn the tables in an A8.

Well, as I am from Europe, hope to find some of the guys you suggested and ask them for tips.  

Once you get "slow and low" and at an energy disadvantage then you are 90% screwed. Your asking how to get out of an impossible situation.

First the 190 has the roll advantage and most time speed too. You need to use that. Stick stirring will only delay the inevitable and make you look like a skilless dweeb.

I understand you are asking how to survive a slow/low situation. But I think you should think a little ahead and consider the fact that if you go for a shot or maneuver that YOU KNOW will end up with you slow and low...DONT DO IT.

Keep your speed. Use larger circles to vertically turn. Maintain a separation that allows you to maneuver for gun solutions.

The 190 excels in a high then low yoyo because you can roll much faster. This gains you a little angle each turn. Stay fast. Don't cut your throttle.

Know your enemy planes... don't expect to escape by running from a k4 or p51. If it is a zero or spit 5 then you can extend.

Draw them to a rolling scissor that is half vertical and half flat. Imagine an oval that is bent 90 deg.

Take every chance to extend and gain speed. speed speed. This is the key.

I am not suggesting you run to 2k and boom and zoom. I am saying to use your roll in the vertical and your speed to get room to maneuver without being caught slow and getting out turned.

[mthrockmor]

I agree with Agent360.

When I'm on the deck and about to get into trouble my first thought is anything that allows me to build 200+knts of speed. There are many planes that will catch the A5 on the deck so a long term plan of doing the runstang thing won't work.

The ideal spot I work for is 200+knts and 1,000m distance, which presumes the bad guy is at my 6. When I hit that spot I will turn to the left (going with torque) and get them into a scissors. They will get the first pass, which 99 out of 100 times they will take the shot and miss. I get them to miss by pulling into the vertical when they are about 400-600m out. They zip by and using the 190s roll rate I can get my nose over very quickly, which surprises most. Most think the 190 is a pig on the deck and when they realize you've rolled over and are setting up a firing solution they tend to do dumb things.

Once I get into this point I can either disengage and extend, or see what happens. I will almost always give it a turn or two. If I get a good shot, they get stupid I'll keep it up. If they don't do anything stupid and I am unable to get a good angle I will work to disengage and extend, which is easy to do.

Once I disengage and extend they will normally turn to give chase and within moments we are back to where we started. I am building speed and they are at my '6' rapidly heading back to the 1,000m range. This keeps up for a bit until I get to the magic speed and distance at which point I will start it all over again.

[Agent360]

I agree with Agent360.

When I'm on the deck and about to get into trouble my first thought is anything that allows me to build 200+knts of speed. There are many planes that will catch the A5 on the deck so a long term plan of doing the runstang thing won't work.

The ideal spot I work for is 200+knts and 1,000m distance, which presumes the bad guy is at my 6. When I hit that spot I will turn to the left (going with torque) and get them into a scissors. They will get the first pass, which 99 out of 100 times they will take the shot and miss. I get them to miss by pulling into the vertical when they are about 400-600m out. They zip by and using the 190s roll rate I can get my nose over very quickly, which surprises most. Most think the 190 is a pig on the deck and when they realize you've rolled over and are setting up a firing solution they tend to do dumb things.

Once I get into this point I can either disengage and extend, or see what happens. I will almost always give it a turn or two. If I get a good shot, they get stupid I'll keep it up. If they don't do anything stupid and I am unable to get a good angle I will work to disengage and extend, which is easy to do.

Once I disengage and extend they will normally turn to give chase and within moments we are back to where we started. I am building speed and they are at my '6' rapidly heading back to the 1,000m range. This keeps up for a bit until I get to the magic speed and distance at which point I will start it all over again.

This the best advice I have seen for the 190

 

[Babalonian]

This the best advice I have seen for the 190

 

One of the commandments of driving the 190 from the oldest testament - Thou shal have control or authority over the fight if ye keep it in the 2-300knt (225-350mph) range.  It's right there up at the top of the list, right under - Thou shal not flat turn, EVAR.

[Nath[BDP]]

I used to be a big fan of the 190A8 and flew it half the time.  

A lot of my tactics revolved around using quick reversals and quickly bleeding E to force overshoots, either in one pass or after a short scissors.  The 4x20mm 2x13mm package only needed one shot.  

I haven't been flying it at all lately -- I find it's really outclassed these days, it still feels like it performs like it did in 2004, while all other planes have become more nimble near stall speeds, especially P47s, 109s, and even P51s, which the

190A8 used to be able to hang with for a little bit in the scissors, not so much anymore.  Once they dump flaps its over since they can start "floating" while the 190A8 starts becoming dead stick at 180mph.