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Author Topic: He177 ?  (Read 26716 times)

Offline GScholz

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Re: He177 ?
« Reply #105 on: February 24, 2013, 12:20:25 PM »
Jag, the picture you were trying to post isn't showing.
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Offline jag88

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Re: He177 ?
« Reply #106 on: February 24, 2013, 12:33:30 PM »
How about now?

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Offline jag88

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Re: He177 ?
« Reply #107 on: February 24, 2013, 12:48:11 PM »
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Offline GScholz

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Re: He177 ?
« Reply #108 on: February 24, 2013, 12:51:20 PM »
Yup, that's better.

Edit: The larger version doesn't show. Prolly need to be logged in somewhere to see it.
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: He177 ?
« Reply #109 on: February 24, 2013, 01:16:25 PM »
Jag, post better pictures if possible. Text becomes too blurred when I zoom in.


And I would not at all be surprised if the Do 217 could do 347 with internal only. The B-29 can go about that fast, and is much larger, and much much heavier.

Ju-188A could likely do about 310mph with externals. Its incredibly unlikely it could only do 415km/hr, considering the Ju-88 does about the same while having more drag, and weaker engines.
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Offline jag88

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Re: He177 ?
« Reply #110 on: February 24, 2013, 02:44:57 PM »


Right click on the image, open in new tab, voilá.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2013, 02:56:38 PM by jag88 »
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Offline jag88

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Re: He177 ?
« Reply #111 on: February 24, 2013, 03:18:30 PM »
Quote from: Tank-Ace on February 24, 2013, 01:16:25 PM
Jag, post better pictures if possible. Text becomes too blurred when I zoom in.


And I would not at all be surprised if the Do 217 could do 347 with internal only. The B-29 can go about that fast, and is much larger, and much much heavier.

Ju-188A could likely do about 310mph with externals. Its incredibly unlikely it could only do 415km/hr, considering the Ju-88 does about the same while having more drag, and weaker engines.

Griehl mentions 510kph at 12,7t, 4t below max, at 5.000m for the 217K1, the 213 M1 should be slightly higher. Nowarra says 515Kph without mentioning weight or altitude and so does Price, indicating that there is conflicting data and that he prefers RLM's over Dornier's.

What do your sources say?

What does this mean, btw?

"Damit ließen sich bei einem mittleren Fluggewicht, so die Werksangaben, in Bodennähe 430 km/h, in der Volldruckhöhe von 5200 m, eine Höchstgeschwindigkeit von immerhin rund 520 km/h erreichen."

520 at 5200m and 430 on the deck at medium weight?
« Last Edit: February 24, 2013, 03:55:39 PM by jag88 »
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Offline Denniss

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Re: He177 ?
« Reply #112 on: February 24, 2013, 04:04:56 PM »
Quote from: jag88 on February 24, 2013, 10:48:31 AM
Sounds about right, where did you get the Ju-188E numbers?
Rechlin test report of Ju 188E tested with various loadout variants. Dated 30.7.1943, flame dampers not used.


Regarding the He 177 GL/C page - the A-5 has flame dampers there. No flame dampers noted on the A-3 but two Hs 293 as external load.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: He177 ?
« Reply #113 on: February 24, 2013, 04:08:03 PM »
Quote from: jag88 on February 24, 2013, 03:18:30 PM
What does this mean, btw?

"Damit ließen sich bei einem mittleren Fluggewicht, so die Werksangaben, in Bodennähe 430 km/h, in der Volldruckhöhe von 5200 m, eine Höchstgeschwindigkeit von immerhin rund 520 km/h erreichen."

520 at 5200m and 430 on the deck at medium weight?


Yes.
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Offline GScholz

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Re: He177 ?
« Reply #114 on: February 24, 2013, 04:11:12 PM »
Rough translation: For a medium weight in flight at factory specs max speed at ground level 430 kmh. At full pressure height of 5,200 meters max speed of approx. 520 kmh.
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: He177 ?
« Reply #115 on: February 24, 2013, 04:23:32 PM »
Quote from: jag88 on February 24, 2013, 03:18:30 PM
Griehl mentions 510kph at 12,7t, 4t below max, at 5.000m for the 217K1, the 213 M1 should be slightly higher. Nowarra says 515Kph without mentioning weight or altitude and so does Price, indicating that there is conflicting data and that he prefers RLM's over Dornier's.

What do your sources say?

What does this mean, btw?

"Damit ließen sich bei einem mittleren Fluggewicht, so die Werksangaben, in Bodennähe 430 km/h, in der Volldruckhöhe von 5200 m, eine Höchstgeschwindigkeit von immerhin rund 520 km/h erreichen."

520 at 5200m and 430 on the deck at medium weight?

Add in 'at least' before the 520. Where is that coming from, BTW?
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Quote from: Arlo on April 28, 2014, 06:25:38 PM
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

"Once more unto the breach"

Offline Karnak

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Re: He177 ?
« Reply #116 on: February 24, 2013, 04:23:51 PM »
Lusche, as a bomber driver and bomber hunter, what would your expectations of the He177A-5 be?  Where would it fit in with the other four heavy bombers in Aces High?
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Offline jag88

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Re: He177 ?
« Reply #117 on: February 24, 2013, 04:37:10 PM »
Quote from: Denniss on February 24, 2013, 04:04:56 PM
Rechlin test report of Ju 188E tested with various loadout variants. Dated 30.7.1943, flame dampers not used.


Regarding the He 177 GL/C page - the A-5 has flame dampers there. No flame dampers noted on the A-3 but two Hs 293 as external load.

Thx, that is a big help, sadly it confirms what I expected, large external loads murder performance.

Yes, I noticed, which bothers me since it was the only data point we had for Ga and is contaminated by parasitic drag.  In any case, if I am not mistaken max speed at full load must sit somewhere between the 410kph (with added drag) max continuous indicated for the A3, and the 490kph max military indicated for medium weight.  Maybe thats is the explanation for the 440kph listed by Griehl?

Btw, I apologize, I mentioned 520kph for the 177A5/R7...which is a different version of the Greif and not the R2 in discussion, I think that one was a pressurized model IIRC.
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Offline jag88

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Re: He177 ?
« Reply #118 on: February 24, 2013, 04:41:48 PM »
Quote from: Tank-Ace on February 24, 2013, 04:23:32 PM
Add in 'at least' before the 520. Where is that coming from, BTW?

Griehl's book on the 217, commenting on the Do-217K1, and then on the next page mentions 510kph, which is odd.  I guess the 12,7t weight referred must be slightly above medium weight.

What were your sources again?
« Last Edit: February 24, 2013, 04:44:43 PM by jag88 »
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Offline jag88

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Re: He177 ?
« Reply #119 on: February 24, 2013, 04:58:44 PM »
Thx to all for the translations btw.
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