He177 ?

[GScholz]

What is your point Lyric? As your article says, Blagnac "the pirate", without any experience or training on the type, flew the stolen He 177A-5 from France to Farnborough, England without any problems. Or as the article states "without any further incident". That Eric Brown, who later flew it, was "unimpressed" and worried about Allied intelligence reports saying the 177 had problems is rather uninteresting. All the instability problems had been corrected by the A-3 model in 1942.

[GScholz]

A most unusual combat report:

20 February 1944

A B-17 flown by Lt. Guy Reed and specially-equipped for recon and weather reporting took off to determine the weather conditions over Germany and the North Sea. While enroute, Lt. Reed picked up a ghost radio signal and decided to investigate. A ghost signal had been causing havoc among the bomber groups and misdirecting many bombers away from airfields until their fuel was exhausted and they ditched their bombers. Dropping through cloud cover, Reed's B-17 found the source of the radio signal - a He 177 recon plane. Coming up alongside the big bomber, the B-17 started firing at the Heinkel, beginning a battle across the North Sea as the two lumbering giants fired at each other. Lt. Reed brought the B-17 around the Heinkel and the crew fired on the German bomber at almost point-blank range. The Heinkel dove then appeared to stall alongside the Fortress. As the American bomber came alongside, the German gunners opened up on the B-17, killing the right waist gunner, knocking the cover off the top turret and jamming the rudder. A .50 cal shell from the B-17 nearly killed the German pilot and he decided to break off the battle. As he banked away, a volley of gunfire from the Fortress damaged one of his engines and the He 177 tumbled out of the sky out of control. Nobody survived the crash. Lt. Reed was able to bring his damaged plane back to Scotland for a crash landing.

[GScholz]

Another account of the B-17 vs. He 177 story:

Duel between a B-17 and He-177:
Feb. 20, 1944, a weather recon B-17 flying out of Scotland encountered an
He-177 that was orbiting over the North Sea transmitting a false homing
radio beam to lure American planes flying the Atlantic off course so that
they would run out of fuel far out at sea. When his radio operator picked
up the signal, the B-17 pilot, Guy Reed, assumed it was being broadcast
from a submarine close by and decided to follow the beam and send a
location report. Visibility was about a quarter mile when the crew
spotted not a sub but a big He-177. Reed decided to try to shoot the
He-177 down and a maneuver fight began. At one point the B-17 actually
collided with the He-177, smacking the belly of the German with its tail
fin. The two bombers traded gunfire for some minutes. At one point Reed
was able to position his plane behind and below the German and his gunners
ripped it with heavy fire. The He pilot threw his plane into a dive. The
B-17 followed, then, at low altitude the He-177 deployed its dive brakes
and dropped its gear, slowing dramatically as it pulled up. The B-17
shot past it and it was the turn of the He-177 gunners to rake the B-17
with fire. The top turret plexigas was shattered. The right waist gunner
was killed. At that point, the two planes, flying at about 3,000 feet
flew alongside each other blazing away like two battleships trading
broadsides. The He-177 pilot decided to break away to the right. As he
did so, the ball turret gunner on the B-17 was able to pour gunfire into
the right engine nacelle (housing two engines), apparently knocking them
out. The He pilot lost control and the plane went into a spin and crashed
into the sea. No one got out. Reed was able to nurse his plane home with
some judicious throttle jockeying---the collision had damaged the rudder
so that the plane wanted to turn to the left and would not flying straight
and level. This story is recounted in "Big Week" by Glen Infield.

[jag88]

Do 117, Ju 188.

Both of those would have to carry their ordnance externally seriously affecting their speed and survivability, and carry a lot less.

[Tank-Ace]

Both of those would have to carry their ordnance externally seriously affecting their speed and survivability, and carry a lot less.

Both COULD carry ordnance externally. Didn't have to, but could.

And the Ju-188 could still make better than 300mph unless it has higher drag penalties than our current plane set.

[jag88]

Both COULD carry ordnance externally. Didn't have to, but could.

And the Ju-188 could still make better than 300mph unless it has higher drag penalties than our current plane set.

Yes, but if you are going to use only its meager internal capacity you are better off flying a jabo.

[Karnak]

The He177 also carried most of its heavy loads externally so far as the diagrams I have seen indicate.

[Tank-Ace]

Yes, but if you are going to use only its meager internal capacity you are better off flying a jabo.

Highly arguable. And you still don't get that the 188 very well might be making more than 300mph with external ordnance.

[GScholz]

Heaviest internal load seems to be the 6x PC1000 armor piercing bomb. Each bomb weighing in at 2,176 lbs for a total of 13,056 lbs.

Actually, the 4x SC1700 clocks in at almost 15,000 lbs...

[Franz Von Werra]

Ever heard of a Luft bomber squad???

Stuka flights are rare, fun though, but the end result is the same everytime, we get shot down defeated over enemy base! Ju-87s, Ju-88s, He-111s  same thing! They get shot down disrespectfully by late war fighters. Why would someone repeatedly do a 'defeated' thing? Defeated in a row is DISCOURAGEMENT! The normal result is... go do something else? BOOO!

Give us the the chance to SUCCEED with 'bomber missions' and 'bomber escort escort! Give us some late war offense! Give us our TEETH! Hence: level bomber with some bombs, and defensive guns!

Mr Hitech! Mr Pyro! Open this gate! My Hitech! Mr Pyro! Tear down this wall! (between luft and their heavy bomber, success! fun! rinse/repeat!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfZgR5KOIXs  <--- Ronald Reagen speech

ANY LUFT PLAYERS, please post! If you ever got called a Luftwhinner, Luftwobble, Luftwaffle! POST
Say something like... I'll start...
Respectfully, Mr Hitech, Mr Pyro, please give us jagdgeschwader guys some Bombergeschwader strategic TEETH, please give us the 177!  

The plane existed, it was mass produced, it saw combat, info is available. It meets all the games requirements!
(Any other fix-it kits were probably sitting in the fields next to the 177s, waiting to be installed, while the crews were repairing the fighters instead, and gassing up the fighters instead! it flew bugless, Ohhkay?)
 
Google He-177 Greif, endless info. If not enough, goto wikipedia.DE, 177, and google-translate the whole page..  Please, just not the Eric Brown version all we ask LOL. Sources giving conflicting data? what else is new? heh

BLUEPRINTS/DIAGRAMS: (needs google-translate)
http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/Flugzeuge/Bomber/He%20177/cockpit/He%20177%20cockpit.html  <--- half of the planes AH file already done?

(if want to see the whole Reagen speech, 26minutes heh)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MDFX-dNtsM&playnext=1&list=PLjq6qJSdsJ68Fk0blEsEW7UMFWqZSRIMa&feature=results_video
hmm waffles, butter and syrup too... gota go!

[Karnak]

Franz Von Werra,

The Greif was a terrible warplane.  Ask for one of the good German bombers, the Do217E or Ju188A.  Both would be quite serviceable in the LWA.

Your complaint about the lack of a good German bomber was likely echoed by the WWII Luftwaffe, and is echoed by Japanese, Italian and Russian aircraft fans here.  Look at the bomber choices the Russian and Italian players have.

I note that you left out the fact that the most survivable bomber in the game is also German, the Ar234B.

[GScholz]

The Greif would be awesome in AH, since none of its problems would be modeled.

[Franz Von Werra]

This is the 177 thread, not the japan italy or russian bomber thread.
Guy who started this thread said 'he would come back to game'... accounts!

More accouts? (my 2cents...)
Mr Hitech, Mr Pyro: I goto museums with ww2 planes from time to time (airshows too)... lots and lots of ww2 plane buff people there. Most have never heard of AH? I see boards with many pamphlets for 'dinner at 4000ft plane rides' and 'pizza place' and 'hotel place' and all this stuff, plenty enough room for an AH pamphlet on it? Why not send them a stack of pamphlets for AH, say 30 pamphlets? (or a Giant poster)Ask them to request more when run out? Then check with them. OR A BIG POSTER of AH with screeny.
Put game screeny at top of a He-177 with a P-51 chasing it? (again just my 2cents)

I bet some of those people climbing all over the p38 and f-14, etc would like a pamphlet!
If they only knew?

Airshows too, why no booth with giant poster of AH? Im sure Bruv would sign autographs and pass out pamphlets at every airshow England has every year! Give him a neat system so they can watch him pwnt live in game on a supersize screen? If not Bruv, im sure Midway would do it LOL

He-177 explains stuff to a P-61 Black Widow!
http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2011/03/p-61-black-widow-versus-he-177-griffon.html

[Karnak]

The Greif would be awesome in AH, since none of its problems would be modeled.

Yes, this is why the idea of adding it is so appalling.  It would be a gross misrepresentation of history and a travesty to have the B-17G, B-24J and Lancaster overshadowed by a piece of crap Heinkel 177.

[Tank-Ace]

Hell, the B-29 would be rivaled by the He-177.

Really should be one of the last things added.