New C202 and C205 Models. NICE!

[USRanger]

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzz, wrong again.

I prefer to be accurate, but if we can not find the correct size, I would prefer to error on the side of thin because screens do not have binocular vision.


I agree something is off with the wind shield supports we are looking at the issue.

HiTech

 

[killnu]

a new C202?  I just happened to get back from a 7 month deployment in time for this?  wooot   It may be time to resubscribe...

[The Fugitive]

Welcome back Bro!   

[Krusty]

Hitech, any comment on the unhelpful layout of instruments, the poor visibility on ammo counter? I'm seeing a lot of real estate being left unused, just to place the instruments elsewhere in the cockpit. The only reason for this is to try to make it look like the real thing, only in the past you've specifically NOT put historic layout ahead of actual in-game usefulness...


Comments? Are you changing your policy? Are we to expect this with every plane that is updated?

[Wmaker]

I agree something is off with the wind shield supports we are looking at the issue.

Good to hear! Thanks HT!

I'm seeing a lot of real estate being left unused, just to place the instruments elsewhere in the cockpit.

I for one am really happy that the instruments are placed to the places where they were in real life and that the "empty places" which didn't have gauges in them will only receive default HTC-stuff like the ammo counters. When Brewster was updated you asked for the same thing to happen, ie. adding gauges to the main instrument panel that it never had. I'm glad they didn't listen you then and hopefully they won't listen to you know. I like the cockpit layouts to be more authentic.

[SmokinLoon]

Hmm... the historical accuracy vData Recovery Labs??????????????Data Recovery Labs??????????????Data Recovery Labs??????????????Data Recovery Labs??????????????Data Recovery Labs??????????????Data Recovery Labs??????????????Data Recovery Labs??????????????Data Recovery Labs??????????????¡ ~¡ ~       276701345MltCpy2.10 FILL FILLed Sector; ST500DM002-9YN14 (CC4H) S1D5GMZYData Recovery Labs??????????????Data Recovery Labs??????????????Data Recovery Labs??????????????Data Recovery Labs??????????????Data Recovery Labs??????????????r move something around so it may be seen from the basic view in the cockpit (AH's "basic" view is by default looking though the gunsight). If I could pan the view a bit quicker and have more hot button views (in specifically a "normal" pilot view, gun sight view, gauge/panel view), that would be even better.

FWIW, I think the more historically accurate HTC can be the more justice they will do the plane they are modelling.  I hope that by catering to the "game play" side of things they do not correct a handi-cap that plane otherwise had to deal with in the real deal.         

[Krusty]

HTC took the position that usefulness was more important back when they started. The minutae wasn't what made this game. We don't sit there for 30 minutes warming engines up before each sortie. We don't push 15 buttons when 1 will do. We have standard US instruments because we are all switching planes and the uniformity is more important than historical accuracy.

You can't have historically accurate placement of instruments while keeping this practical "1 button instead of 15" method.

Either you're doing it to present the info in the best way possible, or you're not. Doing it half-and-half doesn't do anything. It's not helpful, and it's not accurate. So we need to stick to 1. I don't think accurate instrument layout is going to help this game. It's going to hurt folks that partake of as many planes as the game has to offer.

This game isn't simulating all the tiny tiny details that real WW2 pilots had to deal with, including the secreting of instrument dials in obscure corners of the cockpit (P-40 fuel dial was on the floor by your foot, for example) that are hard or impossible to see in this game without track-IR.

Frankly HTC set the tone long ago, and now they're not sticking to it. I don't mind a graphical feel and a visual style being used. In fact I love it. However, leaving 60% of the forward dashboard unused just to hide engine RPM dials or fuel meters or any number of other things that are rather important to basic flight is just unhelpful in every way.

[Karnak]

Frankly HTC set the tone long ago, and now they're not sticking to it. I don't mind a graphical feel and a visual style being used. In fact I love it. However, leaving 60% of the forward dashboard unused just to hide engine RPM dials or fuel meters or any number of other things that are rather important to basic flight is just unhelpful in every way.

As far as I know they abandoned that when they added the B-24J and Ki-84-Ia, barring extreme things like the fuel gauge being by the foot and almost impossible for non-trackIR users to see.

[Oldman731]

I don't think accurate instrument layout is going to help this game. It's going to hurt folks that partake of as many planes as the game has to offer.

Really, it doesn't pose much of a problem.

- oldman (unless you fly solely by instruments, I suppose)

[Wmaker]

You can't have historically accurate placement of instruments while keeping this practical "1 button instead of 15" method.

Why not? That's actually something that has been largely done in the new AHII models already. Seems to work fine to me.

----------------------
Personally I'd like to have the cockpits even more authentic than they are.

[Krusty]

ONly, it doesn't work. The layouts aren't nearly historic. The instruments aren't either. Hiding the RPM on the brewster to be below the cockpit "forward" view is nothing more than annoying.

It's a slippery slope. If HTC wants to go "authentic" with cockpits, it will alienate a lot of people. Most instruments weren't accurate and many are taken for granted. Many of the early war designs, such as the Macchi's 1930s design, lacked most of the dials you see in aces high. Most they did have weren't accurate. Engine RPM needles could vibrate back and forth and not give accurate readouts. Fuel dials were often only calibrated to show empty (or, barring that had a red light that lit up when you were out of gas because you sometimes couldn't trust the needle on the dial).

If you want to go authentic, you must stick to what the plane had, and limit the accuracy of that. Forget about chat buffers and in-game vox. Forget about having fun. You'll spend your entire flight wondering if your guns will fire or if your engine will still be running when you meet the enemy.

HTC has not gone down this route, and has staunchly been against these kind of gameplay considerations from the start. We also don't have random component failure or engine failure or gun jams.

All of these elements are better suited to a WW2 flight simulator, and not to a "combat simulator" like aces high.

Since we have NONE of these aspects incorporated into our game, simply mixing unauthentic instruments with 1 or 2 that are hidden off the "forward" view makes no sense. Just because you hide the RPM dial on the Brewster doesn't mean it's an accurate cockpit.

Just because you hide 3-4 of the dials on the C2 doesn't make it accurate. It makes it annoying. It makes it a hinderance. This is something HTC has been against for some time, even after the B-24s and newer models as mentioned.

[Franz Von Werra]

On my throttle controller, I have two buttons. One to look up, other to look down. And the hat on stick dictates which way I'm looking horizontally. Pushing horizontal view hat incombatination with up or down button, gives us the 45degrees up, or 45degrees down down views in any horizontal direction?  
Sooo, to look at lower dash, I push forward hat and down-button to see 'forward-down.'  I also have the forward-down view F10'ed so its customized to see whole lower dash.

For 109s, foward-down is F10'ed a bit to the right, so that I can see all the auto-pilot lights which hide behind the yoke in game... red for autoclimb, green for hold verticle angle, and yellow for level flight. Knowing which auto-pilot set up im in is important! So i have this button set, helps for all plane dashboards. For trim, saitek x52 has all the wheels and slider for trim control right on the throttle also. I have game programed for two modes, and a button on throttle to choose each. First way is so that when combat-trim is off:All the trims are set to where my sliders are (usually centered) so no probs when trying to slow down for carrier landing. Second way is for when combat-trim is off, but game leaves airlerons and rudder trim alone where it was, so I only control elevator trim for extra turning powerz when flying 109s - example: pulling out of that compression dive that 109s do in game.

Also, throttle's extra front hat, I use this to scoot head view left/right and up/down when looking in any direction. Works great for spotting that enemy plane that is chasing me and trying to hide behind my tail - front throttle had left and right and i see him, more importantly his range icon to know if he's getting closer or further...

Furthermore, I have a scroll wheel on front of throttle also, which I use to zoom in and out when in zoom mode (zoom toggle button - pinky on stick)...

Controller I use is Saitek X52 (not pro), price check it on amazon.com and bring the print out or show them on your smartphone's amazon app. It's currently $105 dollars, when I got mine waaay back it was amazon listed for $80, woot!  Saved me $30 about from the local large electronics store. This one has lasted over a year - no breaking buttons or anything (like saitek's junk $50 cyborgX breaks any button you push.) Stores verify prices by finding the listings on their own computers.

I am absolutely comfortable with my view set ups. And I don't have track I.R. because I assume it's too prone to FAIL me when I'm in a pinch and I need the info immediately without any technically difficulites - like turned head a tiny bit too much or too little so got wrong view and coulnt see enemy plane. Saitek x52 using buttons to scoot head etc is more 'crisp' for the the whole viewing department. Keeping ones head locked in position to avoid changing window views might give a person neck probs anyways! I look more like this when flying   or   or   or   haha or   or  ,  looking at keyboard and games dashboard instrutments. With track IR you're only supposed to move your eyes to look at each corner of our computer monitor etc  , if you move head you to help eyes see, our view scoots all over left right etc. I think Track IR is a major fail heh.

For that matter, get you a Microsoft Lifechat LX 3000, from amazon for only $25 dollars... headphones covers whole ear, so you hear every sound game makes. Most stores don't sell it anymore because if they price-match internet/amazon, they lose money.

Ok, imma go get me some breakfast, i outa here
Sorry if hijacked.. back to topic! C202's and C205s!

[ink]

I think the layout in the cockpit should be as realistic as possible.....even to the point of being in the language it was originally.....I do not like the idea of random engine and gun failure and other such stuff that a real pilot had to deal with...IE the checklist for starting up....

this is a combat sim and when I am in combat I don't look at the instruments at all....no need to....everything that is needed to know while in combat has a sound association with it.....


so as far as I am concerned we can have realistic gauges and still have a combat sim without it being a full blown flight sim.


my .02$

[Wmaker]

ONly, it doesn't work. The layouts aren't nearly historic. The instruments aren't either. Hiding the RPM on the brewster to be below the cockpit "forward" view is nothing more than annoying.

*shrug* Works fine to me. AH views are excellent and it is easy to map well working solutions. Having authentic look of the cockpit has nothing to do with instrument errors nor not having a text buffer/vox.

Having authentic instrument layout gives a more authentic feel to me than random arbitrary layout, simple as that. I'm well aware that HTC wants the cockpits to be very readable and to me, that's exactly what they are nd the cockpit of the Macchi looks like one aswell. You can protest all you like for all I care.

[Franz Von Werra]

Historic as possible yes. Exception: I like the speed and alt in Standard measurement system, NOT metric!
Everything is mph is just fine by me... others might like metric... sounds like an option chosen at start games login or choose arena screen.

Same here tho, no probs with views. F10 what YOU like.