Author Topic: Me-410 option without tailgun assembly  (Read 1931 times)

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
Re: Me-410 option without tailgun assembly
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2013, 08:14:02 AM »
The 410 is just as capable as the mosquito dogfighting if you have a split throttle and a liking of 25% and dts
:rofl

No.


The Mosquito rolls better, climbs better, turns better, dives better and the guns, vs fighters, are a wash.  So yes, the Me410 can dogfight just as well as the Mosquito...if the Mosquito is carrying 100% fuel and 1,000lbs of bombs and eight 60lb rockets while the Me410 is at its minimum gun configuration and at 25% fuel.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 08:16:56 AM by Karnak »
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Torquila

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 564
Re: Me-410 option without tailgun assembly
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2013, 08:15:15 AM »
Yes

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
Re: Me-410 option without tailgun assembly
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2013, 09:06:36 AM »
Yes

No.

Mosquito VI K/D ratio vs Me410 over the last four completed tours: 1.89
Me410 K/D ratio vs Mosquito VI over the last four completed tours: 0.53

157:
Mosquito VI:
Overall K/D ratio: 1.07
K/D vs Me410: 5

Me410:
Overall K/D ratio 0.56
K/D vs Mosquito VI: 0.2

156:
Mosquito VI:
Overall K/D ratio: 0.98
K/D vs Me410: 1.43

Me410:
Overall K/D ratio: 0.53
K/D vs Mosquito VI: 0.7

155:
Mosquito VI:
Overall K/D ratio: 1.04
K/D vs Me410: 1

Me410:
Overall K/D ratio: 0.67
K/D vs Mosquito VI: 1

154:
Mosquito VI:
Overall K/D ratio: 1.20
K/D vs Me410: 2.2

Me410:
Overall K/D ratio: 0.57
K/D vs Mosquito VI: 0.45
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Delirium

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7276
Re: Me-410 option without tailgun assembly
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2013, 09:16:22 AM »
The 410 is just as capable as the mosquito dogfighting if you have a split throttle and a liking of 25% and dts,  

Since when do you need a split throttle to dogfight in a twin engined aircraft?
Delirium
80th "Headhunters"
Retired AH Trainer (but still teach the P38 selectively)

I found an air leak in my inflatable sheep and plugged the hole! Honest!

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
Re: Me-410 option without tailgun assembly
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2013, 09:36:50 AM »
Since when do you need a split throttle to dogfight in a twin engined aircraft?
You don't.  It is pure placebo effect.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Torquila

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 564
Re: Me-410 option without tailgun assembly
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2013, 09:41:54 AM »
Nice karnak, changing your message like that, real cool...

Yea, i know its a problem, the 410 has like 5 minutes of fight time like that (between bases) but unfortunately the moment you put 50% on it acts like it has 100% so its the only way you can get decent performance out of it.


Offline Torquila

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 564
Re: Me-410 option without tailgun assembly
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2013, 09:55:52 AM »
Delirium its not a placebo, it really makes a difference in at very low speeds (and pilot dependent). Thats like saying torque is a placebo.

Offline Megalodon

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2272
Re: Me-410 option without tailgun assembly
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2013, 10:17:09 AM »
No.

Mosquito VI K/D ratio vs Me410 over the last four completed tours: 1.89
Me410 K/D ratio vs Mosquito VI over the last four completed tours: 0.53

157:
Mosquito VI:
Overall K/D ratio: 1.07
K/D vs Me410: 5

Me410:
Overall K/D ratio 0.56
K/D vs Mosquito VI: 0.2

156:
Mosquito VI:
Overall K/D ratio: 0.98
K/D vs Me410: 1.43

Me410:
Overall K/D ratio: 0.53
K/D vs Mosquito VI: 0.7

155:
Mosquito VI:
Overall K/D ratio: 1.04
K/D vs Me410: 1

Me410:
Overall K/D ratio: 0.67
K/D vs Mosquito VI: 1

154:
Mosquito VI:
Overall K/D ratio: 1.20
K/D vs Me410: 2.2

Me410:
Overall K/D ratio: 0.57
K/D vs Mosquito VI: 0.45


 That means zero
Okay..Add 2 Country's at once, Australia and France next plane update Add ...CAC Boomerang and the Dewoitine D.520

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
Re: Me-410 option without tailgun assembly
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2013, 10:20:36 AM »
Nice karnak, changing your message like that, real cool...
Nothing wrong with editing a message.  As it happens you replied while I was editing it.  I am not sure why you took it as a personal insult though.

Quote
Yea, i know its a problem, the 410 has like 5 minutes of fight time like that (between bases) but unfortunately the moment you put 50% on it acts like it has 100% so its the only way you can get decent performance out of it.
It will still get eaten alive by a Mossie VI, pilots being equal.


 That means zero
It doesn't mean everything, but it means a lot more than the empty claims it is data against.

The Mossie VI out performs the Me410 in literally every aspect of flight.  They are not equals in a dogfight.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 10:23:33 AM by Karnak »
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Megalodon

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2272
Re: Me-410 option without tailgun assembly
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2013, 10:30:03 AM »
Delirium its not a placebo, it really makes a difference in at very low speeds (and pilot dependent). Thats like saying torque is a placebo.


Defiantly works in the a20  :aok  but that's another subject right?
Okay..Add 2 Country's at once, Australia and France next plane update Add ...CAC Boomerang and the Dewoitine D.520

Offline Torquila

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 564
Re: Me-410 option without tailgun assembly
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2013, 10:35:21 AM »
haha, not if it includes a bk5 ;-)

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
Re: Me-410 option without tailgun assembly
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2013, 01:18:21 PM »
Dual throttles provides no benefit for the Me410. Only in areas such as spin recovery or super-rare maneuvers like hammerhead wingovers (though I doubt the 410 can even do such a move) would the split throttle help. Split throttle doesn't stop torque. If you throttle back the inboard wing in a turn you lose that extra lift and stall out faster. It's detrimental.

As it stands now, the mosquito is by and far a better fighter than even the lightest 410 loadout. It's just the way it was modeled. However, kill-death ratios in the MA don't mean anything in regards to this. That's entirely subjective and not a controlled test. You can see this, however, by simply flying both regularly. One of the benefits of flying with Batfink is he draws you into the Mossie once in a while. I've got quite a few 8-kill sorties in the mossie (no reloads) when mixing it up. It's much more capable than the 410 at furballing, though not quite as good as a single engine plane would be.

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
Re: Me-410 option without tailgun assembly
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2013, 01:35:41 PM »
I agree it isn't controlled, but it was the only data I could draw out.  I agree any time spent flying the two of them makes it obvious, hence my initial reply of:
" :rofl

No."

Some people seem way too tied up in personal validation based on what plane they like.  The Mossie isn't better at furballing than very many planes, but the Me410 is one of them.  I try to keep a realistic view of it.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Torquila

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 564
Re: Me-410 option without tailgun assembly
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2013, 01:44:18 PM »
you are pretty much talking to yourself in that regard karnak...

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
Re: Me-410 option without tailgun assembly
« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2013, 01:48:53 PM »
you are pretty much talking to yourself in that regard karnak...
You're one of the guys who claimed that the Me410 was as capable a furballer.  Dunno, but that looks pretty self delusional to me.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-