No Icons for enemy

[Vinkman]

You having a problem with my opinion as to why no icons is a bad idea in the MA not involving a screenshot has nothing to do with my being discourteous. But ... what you're doing, presently, is an example of not productively discussing the topic. If you feel mocked by me, specifically, I assure you that it's a perception problem .. and not mine. 

You're welcome. 

Last one.  In my head I attributed Bustr's first two posts to you, which was in error. In reviewing the thread, you didn't mock anyone. My appologies for implying that.

I'll leave it there. 

[Arlo]

Last one.  In my head I attributed Bustr's first two posts to you, which was in error. In reviewing the thread, you didn't mock anyone. My appologies for implying that.

I'll leave it there. 

Thank you. Agreed. Pax. Concentrating on the subject at hand. 

[Wiley]

I think if it was tried on beta one night experiment basis and that was explained in an arena message, folks could deal with it just fine. I have a lot of faith in the community.  

...And that's where we differ wildly.  I think people would log out in droves after about their first 3 or 4 invisible plane deaths, and carry that over to a grudge with the 'direction the game is taking'.  The community are a finicky lot.  If people are forced into unfamiliar gameplay with limited playtime, they get cranky.

Ugh...  Just had a thought.  Imagine what one of the more competent 262 guys could do in a no icon environment...

Learning to function in a no icon environment just takes far too long to do as a short term test.  In the other sim, on the sunday night no icon events (similar to FSO) I spent the first 3 months squinting at my screen looking for dots.  It took me 5 months to get a kill in that environment.  Granted, I was a complete flight sim newb when I began so couldn't keep up with my squad to save my life which didn't help any.

My point is, it's a change that takes dedication and desire to adjust to, not something to be tried for 6 hours.  All 90% of people would get out of that is frustration and the feeling that their entertainment time was wasted.

Wiley.

[Vinkman]

...And that's where we differ wildly.  I think people would log out in droves after about their first 3 or 4 invisible plane deaths, and carry that over to a grudge with the 'direction the game is taking'.  The community are a finicky lot.  If people are forced into unfamiliar gameplay with limited playtime, they get cranky.

Ugh...  Just had a thought.  Imagine what one of the more competent 262 guys could do in a no icon environment...

Learning to function in a no icon environment just takes far too long to do as a short term test.  In the other sim, on the sunday night no icon events (similar to FSO) I spent the first 3 months squinting at my screen looking for dots.  It took me 5 months to get a kill in that environment.  Granted, I was a complete flight sim newb when I began so couldn't keep up with my squad to save my life which didn't help any.

My point is, it's a change that takes dedication and desire to adjust to, not something to be tried for 6 hours.  All 90% of people would get out of that is frustration and the feeling that their entertainment time was wasted.

Wiley.

All good points.

[ink]

Last one.  In my head I attributed Bustr's first two posts to you, which was in error. In reviewing the thread, you didn't mock anyone. My appologies for implying that.

I'll leave it there. 

 

good man.

[The Fugitive]

...And that's where we differ wildly.  I think people would log out in droves after about their first 3 or 4 invisible plane deaths, and carry that over to a grudge with the 'direction the game is taking'.  The community are a finicky lot.  If people are forced into unfamiliar gameplay with limited playtime, they get cranky.

Ugh...  Just had a thought.  Imagine what one of the more competent 262 guys could do in a no icon environment...

Learning to function in a no icon environment just takes far too long to do as a short term test.  In the other sim, on the sunday night no icon events (similar to FSO) I spent the first 3 months squinting at my screen looking for dots.  It took me 5 months to get a kill in that environment.  Granted, I was a complete flight sim newb when I began so couldn't keep up with my squad to save my life which didn't help any.

My point is, it's a change that takes dedication and desire to adjust to, not something to be tried for 6 hours.  All 90% of people would get out of that is frustration and the feeling that their entertainment time was wasted.

Wiley.

I agree, they would log in droves, and those with BBS accounts would post highly flammable texts until Skuzzy came in and liberally swung the bane hammer until his fingers bleed.

I remember the night the 163 first appeared in the MA. It was a Saturday night ( it was squad night) and we were on the AKdesert map. Mugz had the Mafia rolling with a bunch of others joining in on the fun. It was also the weekend of the CON, and guess what the "Evil CON mission" was that year? Yup 163's. They were every where. I think 3/4 of the squad logged in disgust with a crap load of Bish as well.

I'm sure the same would happen if you took away ICONs from players. I also believe that those that "like" this wish will never believe that it won't work unless they see it for themselves.... which I don't think they will ever see. I liken it to the AvA crowd. They swear up and down that 2 sides axis vs allies is the ONLY way to play, but then have trouble getting any one in there. Even when the LW arena crashes more people go to the MW than AvA, but most just log.     

[bustr]

INK,

1. - HiTech gave his business reason for No Icon in a polite rational manner.
2. - Vinkman and Co. rejected the owner of the game's reasons. Some might construe insulted him by thumbing their noses at his reasons, and continued to beat the horse. Even with the tools available to simply present their own arena to the community to help test their hypothesis. Instead they argued for HiTech to force the community to live with their untested wants against meeting the pay role.
3. - I deconstructed the motives which resulted in Vinkman declaring himself a victim of abuse. Poor Vinkman he has been so victimized and abused in a kiddy cartoon game. There is such evil resident in this forum.
4. - This caused the usual circling of the wagons by the resident forum pity committee mollifying Vinkman with a show of manly solidarity focusing on the "Evil bustr". One thing this forum is addicted to is a mob and someone to hang. Works every time like blood to piranha. Half the time you guys do it out of boredom to each other.
5. - Vinkman begins loosing steam on No Icons because now he has the pity committee to fill his void. He begins to listen to them because they are on his side against the "Evil bustr".
6. - Costs me nothing to be part of this forum soap opera of pity parties and lynch mobs.
7. - All along older community members step in to present the rational side of the same reasons HiTech first gave in expanded detail.
8. - Something about rational logic and emotional reasoning gets inserted here.

So I hope you guys at least buy Vinkman dinner and flowers to go along with your manly support of his victimized virtue. I suppose HiTech is fair game at all times to emotional reasoning even if he is the ultimate moderator.

[Pand]

There have been a lot of good ideas and possible solutions provided in this thread while not leaning completely one way or the other. Hopefully a good balance could be implemented that may potentially improve an already awesome game.

Onward!

[ink]

INK,

1. - HiTech gave his business reason for No Icon in a polite rational manner.
2. - Vinkman and Co. rejected the owner of the game's reasons. Some might construe insulted him by thumbing their noses at his reasons, and continued to beat the horse. Even with the tools available to simply present their own arena to the community to help test their hypothesis. Instead they argued for HiTech to force the community to live with their untested wants against meeting the pay role.
3. - I deconstructed the motives which resulted in Vinkman declaring himself a victim of abuse. Poor Vinkman he has been so victimized and abused in a kiddy cartoon game. There is such evil resident in this forum.
4. - This caused the usual circling of the wagons by the resident forum pity committee mollifying Vinkman with a show of manly solidarity focusing on the "Evil bustr". One thing this forum is addicted to is a mob and someone to hang. Works every time like blood to piranha. Half the time you guys do it out of boredom to each other.
5. - Vinkman begins loosing steam on No Icons because now he has the pity committee to fill his void. He begins to listen to them because they are on his side against the "Evil bustr".
6. - Costs me nothing to be part of this forum soap opera of pity parties and lynch mobs.
7. - All along older community members step in to present the rational side of the same reasons HiTech first gave in expanded detail.
8. - Something about rational logic and emotional reasoning gets inserted here.

So I hope you guys at least buy Vinkman dinner and flowers to go along with your manly support of his victimized virtue. I suppose HiTech is fair game at all times to emotional reasoning even if he is the ultimate moderator.

 

[seano]

hey idiots, yes you guys. i see the problem with totally just killing enemy icons in the late arena. but if we could just try out an alter arena where perk points can be made towards the late war, we would be making progress. i am unsure why hitech wouldnt even consider this idea. but i bet we could get maybe 100 guys in there to try it out. yes it may be confusing at first, but i still think its worth a try.

[Shifty]

hey idiots, yes you guys. i see the problem with totally just killing enemy icons in the late arena. but if we could just try out an alter arena where perk points can be made towards the late war, we would be making progress. i am unsure why hitech wouldnt even consider this idea. but i bet we could get maybe 100 guys in there to try it out. yes it may be confusing at first, but i still think its worth a try.

Why do you need a no icon arena to earn perk points towards the LWA that has icons? Not everybody flys to earn perk points. You'd be surprised how many people rarely or never fly perk planes.
Hitech gave you his reasons for the icon system. After reading his reply you're still unsure, yet you call others idiots.    

[jimson]

I liken it to the AvA crowd. They swear up and down that 2 sides axis vs allies is the ONLY way to play, but then have trouble getting any one in there. Even when the LW arena crashes more people go to the MW than AvA, but most just log.    

 
You think the better approach for us would be to say "Come play AvA, our 2 sided setup sucks"?

We have been doing this long enough to know that most people prefer the any plane at any time for any country arena, but we still think it's worth running because we often get enough people to make it fun as hell.

I'm kind of done arguing with people who refuse to recognize that at least since I've been involved, around the the fall of 2009 before anyone considered turning enemy icons off, the arena has always had trouble getting anyone in there and it was never any better when the enemy icons were turned on.

[mechanic]

Back when it was called the Combat Theatre there was qite a large following that would sometimes reach into the 20s, then it died out severely. Then when the icon changes and realism settings got tweaked by the current AvA staff the numbers really picked up again.

[The Fugitive]

hey idiots, yes you guys. i see the problem with totally just killing enemy icons in the late arena. but if we could just try out an alter arena where perk points can be made towards the late war, we would be making progress. i am unsure why hitech wouldnt even consider this idea. but i bet we could get maybe 100 guys in there to try it out. yes it may be confusing at first, but i still think its worth a try.

hey idiot! ya you seano! We understand that YOU understand that doing this in the Main arena would be bad. What YOU don't seem to understand is that even if HTC went through the trouble of setting up the arena you "wish" for you wouldn't get 100 players at a time in there. You would get the 10-20 guys who think no enemy icons are cool and even then most of those would leave as the numbers would be so low that targets would be hard to find. Even guys who who like the idea of no enemy icons would rather fly in a target rich arena with icons on over that. I'd bet you couldn't fill a custom arena if you set one up.

 
You think the better approach for us would be to say "Come play AvA, our 2 sided setup sucks"?

We have been doing this long enough to know that most people prefer the any plane at any time for any country arena, but we still think it's worth running because we often get enough people to make it fun as hell.

I'm kind of done arguing with people who refuse to recognize that at least since I've been involved, around the the fall of 2009 before anyone considered turning enemy icons off, the arena has always had trouble getting anyone in there and it was never any better when the enemy icons were turned on.

I wasn't trying to bad mouth the AvA arena. You guys work hard to pull people in. The only think that keeps me out is the low numbers. All I was trying to say was that there are some players who fly the AvA arena because they think that is the way a WWII arena should be set up. mustangs dont fight mustangs! They believe it soooo strongly that they don't/can't see that others want to play the game just to have the chance to shoot a bunch of people down. The same can be said about some in the main arenas as well, some believe that it is a waste of time and energy to drop bombs on buildings and guns and take base. They believe it soooo strongly that they don't/can't see that others want to play the game to win the war.

seano is determined he is right and this new arena will take off, even after Hitech posted that it would hurt to try it. Most of the post in here point out why it won't work yet blindly he continues on.

[Vinkman]

INK,

1. - HiTech gave his business reason for No Icon in a polite rational manner.
2. - Vinkman and Co. rejected the owner of the game's reasons. Some might construe insulted him by thumbing their noses at his reasons, and continued to beat the horse. Even with the tools available to simply present their own arena to the community to help test their hypothesis. Instead they argued for HiTech to force the community to live with their untested wants against meeting the pay role.
3. - I deconstructed the motives which resulted in Vinkman declaring himself a victim of abuse. Poor Vinkman he has been so victimized and abused in a kiddy cartoon game. There is such evil resident in this forum.
4. - This caused the usual circling of the wagons by the resident forum pity committee mollifying Vinkman with a show of manly solidarity focusing on the "Evil bustr". One thing this forum is addicted to is a mob and someone to hang. Works every time like blood to piranha. Half the time you guys do it out of boredom to each other.
5. - Vinkman begins loosing steam on No Icons because now he has the pity committee to fill his void. He begins to listen to them because they are on his side against the "Evil bustr".
6. - Costs me nothing to be part of this forum soap opera of pity parties and lynch mobs.
7. - All along older community members step in to present the rational side of the same reasons HiTech first gave in expanded detail.
8. - Something about rational logic and emotional reasoning gets inserted here.

So I hope you guys at least buy Vinkman dinner and flowers to go along with your manly support of his victimized virtue. I suppose HiTech is fair game at all times to emotional reasoning even if he is the ultimate moderator.

I just realized that you're a tool. Good to know.