Author Topic: ENY values that may need HTC's attention  (Read 4003 times)

Offline Latrobe

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Re: ENY values that may need HTC's attention
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2013, 03:09:25 PM »
109F is ENY 30 (not 35) and is fine at that. Just like other 30+ ENY planes (A6Ms, Ki43, etc) it's easy to beat, just don't turn fight it. These planes do not have to engine power to fight back against BnZ tactics. I'd say it's the Spit 5 that's too low.

Offline tunnelrat

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Re: ENY values that may need HTC's attention
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2013, 03:49:28 PM »
P-51D's ENY of 5... why?  It's a good ride, but it's not ENY 5 good.

Is it strictly to prevent perk farming in it?


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Offline Karnak

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Re: ENY values that may need HTC's attention
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2013, 03:50:09 PM »
Caldera,

I'd say the Me410 ought to be between 22 and 25.  20 for the Mossie sounds about right.  The Bf110G-2's air-to-ground capability is so strong that I think it really needs to be between 10 and 15.

P-51D's ENY of 5... why?  It's a good ride, but it's not ENY 5 good.

Is it strictly to prevent perk farming in it?



Usage. It is used more than twice as much as any other fighter.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 03:52:46 PM by Karnak »
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Offline Randy1

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Re: ENY values that may need HTC's attention
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2013, 04:07:54 PM »
To me the ENY and  the perks rates should have some weighting to historical number of planes in use for that period of time.  Too many 109s as a percent of total planes in the simulation and the ENY drops to zero  or maybe a negative for that model as an example.  Too many 262's and the perk cost goes to a 1000, zero 262s and perk cost goes to 100 as a perk cost example.

Offline Lusche

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Re: ENY values that may need HTC's attention
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2013, 04:11:34 PM »
To me the ENY and  the perks rates should have some weighting to historical number of planes in use for that period of time.  

You want the Ostwind to have any ENY of 2? ;)

Keep in mind we are not simulating WW2. We just use the equipment. We have to balance the game in dependency on what is happening in the game. Real world production numbers can't matter, especially considering the different fuctions ENY has to fulfill in AH.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: ENY values that may need HTC's attention
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2013, 04:15:03 PM »
You want the Ostwind to have any ENY of 2? ;)

Keep in mind we are not simulating WW2. We just use the equipment. We have to balance the game in dependency on what is happening in the game. Real world production numbers can't matter, especially considering the different fuctions ENY has to fulfill in AH.
C.205 is another example of a not overwhelmingly powerful unit that would see its ENY at 3 or 4 under such a system.

In addition, what timeframe are we talking about?  Currently in flight?  Used in the last 24 hours?

Seems like it would be easily broken.
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Offline Fish42

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Re: ENY values that may need HTC's attention
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2013, 04:41:38 PM »
Hurricane Mk1 = 40 eny which is fine.

Sea Hurricane Mk1 = 12-15 (I cannot remember). Even with the 4 cannons this plane should not be the same eny as the Seafire or lower eny then any of the F4Us. if you take the 8 303s then the eny is really a joke.

Offline Pand

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Re: ENY values that may need HTC's attention
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2013, 04:50:41 PM »
Usage. It is used more than twice as much as any other fighter.
Are the ENY numbers different in EW and MW vs LW or are they the same?

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Offline Crash Orange

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Re: ENY values that may need HTC's attention
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2013, 04:56:00 PM »
Bf109K-4 (ENY 20) or P-47M (ENY 10), Spitfire Mk XIV (ENY 5, 10 Perk Points) and Ta152H-1 (ENY 10).

The Bf109K-4 is at least competitive with the other three fighters and in some cases is superior.  All four fighters are functionally air-to-air interceptors only.  Either the Bf109K-4's ENY is too low or the other three fighter's ENYs are too high.

Agreed. The 30mm is hard to aim but gives a one-hit kill capability that no other fighter armament has. It has the speed and firepower to murder bombers in slashing attacks like few other prop planes in the game. I'd give the K4 a 5 based on flight characteristics and killing power but bump it to 10 for the bad ballistics and bad views. It's not easy to learn but with a skilled pilot and its fantastic vertical performance nothing with an ENY worse than 15 or so can touch it in its element.

Bf109F-4 (ENY 35) or Spitfire Mk V (ENY 25).

The Bf109F-4's usage and K/D are higher than the Spitfire Mk V (per Lusche's charts) and it has significantly higher performance.  The guns favor the Spitfire Mk V, but it has a short ammo clip of only 6 seconds compared to more than 15 seconds for the Bf109F-4's single 20mm cannon.  Both are functionally air-to-air only.  Either the Spitfire Mk V's ENY is too high or the Bf109F-4's ENY is too low.

I hadn't flown either all that much until recently, but after flying these planes almost solely against each other extensively on both sides in the Malta scenario and TDIH I would take the Spit V all day against the 109F-4. More ammo doesn't help you if you get killed before you can use it up, and the F-4's combination of one 20mm plus two useless popguns makes it much, much harder to get kills unless you can saddle up on somebody and shoot them up for a good long while. It seems to me that anything less than two 20mms or 6 .50s crosses a critical threshold when it comes to snap shots. And the Spit V is superior in just about every respect at higher altitudes.

Ki-84-Ia (ENY 20).
The Ki-84 is a very capable, all round fighter.  It has decent firepower, range, agility, speed, durability and bomb load.  It seems, based purely on performance, that its ENY is too low.

Agreed in general, but, while it's great in a low furball, it has one severe limitation in the MA: unless you're low and slow anything Allied or German can just dive away and laugh as the Ki starts shedding parts. I'd put it at no more than 15 for that reason.

In general, it seems to me that just about every German plane in the game should be bumped up by about 5 (10 for the K-4 which is a killing machine). The Fw-190D-9 is a dominant fighter in many environments, a decent pilot can slaughter slower turny birds with impunity all day in it with a little patience and SA. It should be no worse than 10. As you noted, the Ju-88 is better than a Betty in every respect and while it's light on bomb load it has an unmatched ship-killing capability with torpedoes.

I suspect the Luftwaffe birds are docked for having steep learning curves, but with a skilled pilot who's past the early part of that curve their capability is much higher than their ENYs suggest. If anything I'd say planes like that which are difficult for newbies to fly but murderous in the hands of vets should be hit harder by ENY because the vets are the people who need limiting the most when they have a numbers advantage - a horde of noobs are just more cannon fodder no matter what plane they're flying, but a bunch of aces in 109K-4s and with superior numbers are death on a stick.

Offline FLOOB

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Re: ENY values that may need HTC's attention
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2013, 05:12:30 PM »
B-17 and B-24 both have 20 ENY.  The difference in survivability is much bigger than the difference in bombload.  The B-17's ENY needs to be less than the B-24's.  the Lanc is 15, so make the B-17, 17.

109 G14 is 25 ENY and should be 20.  109 K4 is 20 and should be 10-12.

110G and 410 are 15 but Mossie6 is 30.  :headscratch:  All three should be 20 ENY.

The B-239 is 30 and should be 25.

The F4U-1 is 25 and should be 20

The F4U-1A is 15 and should be 10-12

The 190 A8, A5 and F8 are all 25 ENY.  The F8 lacks the firepower of the A8 and the handling of the A5.  The A5/A8 should be 22 ENY.

The G4M1 is 30 ENY, while the Ju88 is 35.  :headscratch:  The Betty is 40 ENY all the way.

The Ki-43 has no business at 40 ENY.  Try a 40 ENY Spit I, Hurri I or C.202 against it.  Even an A6M2 can't hang with it.  New ENY of 32.

La-5 is 25 and should be 20.

P-38L (15 ENY)is comparable to the F4U-1D (10 ENY)in bomb trucking.  P-38L drops to 12 ENY.

P-38J's only difference from the L is rocket tubes.  New ENY 15.

P-47M and N are both 10 ENY but M carries no ords.  47M is bumped to 12 ENY.

Ki-84 is 20 ENY and should be 12.


Notice that you are leaving empty a big gap from 25 to 40. That's 15 eny points, or 40% of the eny scale. When graphed the eny scale should look like a bell curve, not a U curve.
Also lowering the B239 to 25? It has absolutely no air to ground capability, 4 seconds of non explosive ammo, and you want to lower it into 400mph jabo range?
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Offline ghi

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Re: ENY values that may need HTC's attention
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2013, 05:16:45 PM »
When ENY kicks in ,starts from 1 and lowest ENY toys is 5; imo this is the problem.

Offline Lusche

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Re: ENY values that may need HTC's attention
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2013, 05:21:07 PM »
(...) and lowest ENY toys is 5 (...)


It's 2...


... but I admit that's just bloody unnecessary nitpicking by me, as blocking the B-29 has no real influence on the game at all. Few NOE basegrabs are done with the Superfortress  :D
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Offline Karnak

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Re: ENY values that may need HTC's attention
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2013, 05:32:16 PM »
Are the ENY numbers different in EW and MW vs LW or are they the same?
Each arena has its own ENY settings.
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Offline Ninthmessiah

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Re: ENY values that may need HTC's attention
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2013, 07:51:08 PM »
Unfortunately I suspect that it would be anything but easy to create a matrix upon which a broad consensus can be reached.  Everybody will have different levels of importance that they assign to various aspects being measured as well as disagreements about things that cannot be precisely measured such as cockpit visibility, instrumentation, durability, shape/size affects and armament value.

It is not unfortunate that people will disagree about the importance that they assign to various aspects being measured.  That's the point of debating it.  Then, HTC can assign their own level of importance to whatever change someone is arguing for.

Offline Busher

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Re: ENY values that may need HTC's attention
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2013, 08:02:35 PM »
"109 K4 is 20 and should be 10-12."

WTF! it otta be 5 like the pony. its faster (in the modeller`s world), climbs better and one of those taters hits harder than 50 rounds of 50 cals. :mad:
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