Properly Credit Ack Kills

[Chalenge]

But that's where your arguments fails. If you choose to follow a con into ack, then you have already chosen to either claim a kill, or give up a kill depending on the outcome. So, this 'wish' from the OP amounts to a whine about dying in ack and nothing more.

[RotBaron]

About the only useful thing I see auto ack for anymore, is to daily reeducate knights to the fact that their fighters aren't in god mode. Knights don't hide in their ack because the bish and rooks at least understand deacking a field to make it easier to get at the uppers. Knights think auto ack is there to play doge ball with while trying to vulch uppers. Eventually they kill their own CAP on an enemy field by loosing the dodge ball game to the auto ack. There ain't a face palm big enough anymore to help you while watching this kind of a farce.

   wait, wuuut?    


Few days ago I deacked a medium field virtually by myself and I died 3 times doing it. The strats were down so I knew I could come back and get it all. All the while there were friendlies playing dodgeball in it, some dying too. At one point I think someone said something like "what are you doing?" 

After it was deacked, it occurred to a few to take the base since we now had cap.  I wonder if they wondered, ahhh nvm. 

[danny76]

But that's where your arguments fails. If you choose to follow a con into ack, then you have already chosen to either claim a kill, or give up a kill depending on the outcome. So, this 'wish' from the OP amounts to a whine about dying in ack and nothing more.

How does my argument fail there? If I choose to follow a guy into a canyon, or down amongst the threes. And then I die from his superior acm, or luck or a rappid decelleration on impact with the ground, them at least it was me v him/her. If I die to acknit's because he depended on a computer logarithm to get the kill on me and that isnt reasonable might as well put AI guns on buffs. It ceasrs to be a test of skill between two humans and becomes space invaders

[Chalenge]

How does my argument fail there?

Because you know the guns are there. Your wish is an attempt to remove the penalty from your choosing to go into ack.

[pervert]

But that's where your arguments fails. If you choose to follow a con into ack, then you have already chosen to either claim a kill, or give up a kill depending on the outcome. So, this 'wish' from the OP amounts to a whine about dying in ack and nothing more.

Then why choose to play at all? The point of the game is combat.  

[Karnak]

But that's where your arguments fails. If you choose to follow a con into ack, then you have already chosen to either claim a kill, or give up a kill depending on the outcome. So, this 'wish' from the OP amounts to a whine about dying in ack and nothing more.

I disagree.  If that were the whine, the wish would be to remove or nerf the ack.  Per this wish the ack would still kill people who chased others into the ack, it just wouldn't award that person, or the person who just happened to be close by, a kill they didn't really earn.

[Chalenge]

Then why choose to play at all? The point of the game is combat.  

Again, failure to engage thought. How do you know the guy hasn't been fighting already and is out of ammo? Your choice to follow him.

@Karnak: It's a feature of the terrain just like canyon walls and trees. Therefore, it is a kill assigned to the con and not the attacker.

[Karnak]

Can't say I agree.  

With terrain the recipient of the kill usually had something to do with the dead person hitting the terrain.  I have personally maneuvered a C-47 in such a way as to bait a P-38 into a fatal position, knowing he would likely bite and would die on the hillside if he did all the while being unable to bring guns to bear on me.  I cannot envision as planned a kill as that using skillful maneuvering and the ack.

On the other hand, almost every proxy kill I have received courtesy of the ack has been when I had no interaction with the dead person at all, often with me having just spawned on the runway.  These numbers are undoubtedly weighted that way by me not running to ack, but even then I don't think I'd be able to match the number of unrelated ack gifts even if I had taken the opportunities I had to run to the ack.

[Chalenge]

Can't say I agree.  

With terrain the recipient of the kill usually had something to do with the dead person hitting the terrain.

And in the case of ack the con had something to do with dragging you there. Thank you for providing that little detail.

[Karnak]

And in the case of ack the con had something to do with dragging you there. Thank you for providing that little detail.

No.  You can't count on it.  The best you can do with ack is run to it and then do a luftberry in it while hoping it kills the guy on you, which it usually will not.  You can't lead a fatal, unrecoverable error.  That kill I had on the P-38 in the C-47 was a pure and planned an air-to-air kill as I've ever had in anything with guns.  Based on the P-38's prior behavior I was 95% sure he'd push his nose down to try for a gun solution and if he did there was a 100% chance he would fly into the terrain and that is exactly what happened.  No ack kill can ever be that cleanly planned because you cannot count on the ack to actually kill.

I will be honest, I routinely chase people into the ack in the Mossie because 90+% of the time I take a few inconsequential, or at least non-fatal hits.  The only ack that worries me is 5", 37mm manned, Ostwinds and Wirbelwinds.  Auto-ack isn't that big a deal.

I just don't think people should get free kills out of it.

[Chalenge]

No.  You can't count on it.  The best you can do with ack is run to it and then do a luftberry in it while hoping it kills the guy on you, which it usually will not. 

That's you need to say. If it usually will not kill a guy following you then this wish is purely a whine based upon a single incident and should be ignored on that basis.

If it were to be changed at all (I don't think it needs to be changed) then it chould be changed to where any proxy kill is only awarded if hits have been scored upon the dead airplane.

[Karnak]

Challenge,

Actually read what people write and don't try to imagine your own subtext to it is what they really mean.  Sometimes people actually just mean what they say.

I don't want gift kills from ack for myself.  That was my first thought on reading this thread.  Expanded, I don't think people ought to get credit for kills they had nothing to do with.  Full stop.  No subtext on anything.

[Chalenge]

I do read it all Karnak. I understand your position, but your argument is not supporting a change.

[pervert]

Again, failure to engage thought. How do you know the guy hasn't been fighting already and is out of ammo? Your choice to follow him.

@Karnak: It's a feature of the terrain just like canyon walls and trees. Therefore, it is a kill assigned to the con and not the attacker.

I think the problem is you cannot read properly.

[Chalenge]

No, the problem is I know your tactics and how you go about diving into ack at the drop of a hat, and starting it all by dropping the hat.

Not falling for it pervert.