Author Topic: Spanish Civil War week?  (Read 2308 times)

Offline Arlo

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Spanish Civil War week?
« on: May 13, 2013, 10:51:45 AM »
If we could get approval of skins for the I-16, Emil, HE-111 and Ki-67 subbing for the SB-2 (sigh, yeah, I know) ... and someone to do a Spanish terrain centering on Madrid, perhaps ... could be doable and a change of pace.

Offline Karnak

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Re: Spanish Civil War week?
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2013, 10:54:15 AM »
Wouldn't the G4M1 make a better sub for the SB-2?  I'd think the Ki-67 would pretty much run away with that setup.
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Spanish Civil War week?
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2013, 11:11:57 AM »
Wouldn't the G4M1 make a better sub for the SB-2?  I'd think the Ki-67 would pretty much run away with that setup.
I'd be willing to discuss a practical comparison. One of the unique characteristics of this war (at least early on) happened to be bombers being faster than the fighters. Of course, later on, when more advanced fighters entered the fray it was less so.

Offline Karnak

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Re: Spanish Civil War week?
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2013, 11:41:08 AM »
What was the top speed of the Bf109 used in the Spanish Civil War and what was the top speed of the SB-2?

Bf109E-4 vs G4M1:


Bf109E-4 vs Ki-67:


I-16-24 vs He111H:


Bf109E-4 vs I-16-24:
« Last Edit: May 13, 2013, 11:46:05 AM by Karnak »
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Offline jimson

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Re: Spanish Civil War week?
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2013, 11:56:38 AM »

Offline Arlo

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Re: Spanish Civil War week?
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2013, 12:10:27 PM »
Spanish Civil War

While only 54 SBs had been delivered to the Soviet Air Forces by 1 July 1936,[24] this did not stop the new Tupolev bomber being amongst the first shipments of military equipment sent by the Soviet Union to support the Spanish Republicans when the Spanish Civil War broke out on 17 July 1936. An initial batch of 31 SBs arrived in Cartagena aboard the Soviet Freighter Komsomol in October 1936, flying their first mission, a bombing raid by four SBs against Tablada airfield, Seville on 28 October. The SBs were used to equip Grupo 12 of the Spanish Republican Air Force, which at first was mainly manned by Soviet volunteers and under Soviet control.[25]

The SB could outpace the Fiat CR.32 and Heinkel He 51 biplane fighters of the nationalist forces, and was therefore difficult to intercept, with dives from high altitude being the only way to intercept the SB.[26] On 29 May 1937 two SBs attacked the German pocket battleship Deutschland, mistaking it for the Nationalist cruiser Canarias, killing 31 and injuring a further 83 German sailors.[27] In June–July, a second consignment of 31 SBs were received, allowing Grupo 12 to return to full strength, and a new unit, Grupo 24, to be established.[28] The delivery of Messerschmitt Bf 109s to re-equip the German Condor Legion meant that the SB could no longer evade Nationalist fighters by sheer speed, and losses rose.[26]

A third and final batch of 31 SBs arrived in June 1938,[29] allowing operations to continue, although losses continued to be high. By the time the Civil War ended in March 1939, 73 SBs had been lost, 40 of them to enemy action.[26] Nineteen SBs were taken over by the Nationalists, and used to form a bomber squadron. Although some were re-engined with French Hispano-Suiza 12Ybrs engines to aid maintenance, they were still subject to spares shortages, and in April 1943 only three were airworthy. When Junkers Ju 88s were received in December 1943, the remaining SBs were used for occasional training flights until withdrawn and scrapped in 1948.[30]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_SB

~~~~~

Given the current planeset, I'm at a loss for a more accurate sub for the SB-2 both cosmetically and performance-wise. It could be left out altogether since it would be a late-war setting with the Republic completely on the defense. If players aren't totally into complete balance and 'winning the war' .... just experiencing the setting. *ShruG*

If the SB-2 could be subbed, is there something outside the Japanese planeset you would recommend?



Offline Arlo

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Re: Spanish Civil War week?
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2013, 12:11:39 PM »
We did this version last year.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,334925.0.html

Great. I wasn't here last year.  ;)  How about skins and terrain?  :)

Offline Karnak

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Re: Spanish Civil War week?
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2013, 01:01:56 PM »
The B-25C seems like the only other contender, unless both sides use the He111H.
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Spanish Civil War week?
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2013, 01:10:04 PM »
The B-25C seems like the only other contender, unless both sides use the He111H.

I though about the 25C but then I winced at the cosmetics (heh). 111 on both sides ... interesting to say the least. I wonder if a Republican skin would be allowed (yeah, me and cosmetics)?  :)

Offline Mister Fork

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Re: Spanish Civil War week?
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2013, 02:06:10 PM »
Let see what we could use:

I-16 with limited weapons
Bf-109E-4
He-111 with limited bomb options
Ju-87 with limited weapons
B5N2 with limited weapons
D3A-1 with limited weapons
G4M1 with limited weapons
Hurricane I
C-47
A6M2
B-239
Fi 156
M-3 Halftrack
SdKfz 251 with limited weapons
LVT(A)2/4

Any idea Arlo how we could create two sides to balance it out?
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Spanish Civil War week?
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2013, 02:26:37 PM »
Let see what we could use:

I-16 with limited weapons
Bf-109E-4
He-111 with limited bomb options
Ju-87 with limited weapons
B5N2 with limited weapons
D3A-1 with limited weapons
G4M1 with limited weapons
Hurricane I
C-47
A6M2
B-239
Fi 156
M-3 Halftrack
SdKfz 251 with limited weapons
LVT(A)2/4

Any idea Arlo how we could create two sides to balance it out?

Well, first off, I'd limit it to one fighter and one bomber per side. I'd eliminate the C-47 because I don't recall any air drops in the SCW. I wouldn't limit the weapons for the I-16 since that would help balance fighting the Emil somewhat (up for further discussion). Without light tanks, I'd leave out ground altogether (obviously this takes base capture completely out of the pic). This would be a week of flying heroes whether on the 'winning' or 'losing' side. Franco gets Spain in the end, anyway. The less subbing we do the less energy is devoted to suspension of disbelief (finding a bomber sub for the Republicans and realizing the 111 model is different from the one that flew in the SCW is stretch enough).

Offline jimson

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Re: Spanish Civil War week?
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2013, 05:16:00 PM »
If we are just going to run the I-16 against the 109E and use HE-111 for both. what makes this any different than an early Russian front campaign?

Offline Karnak

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Re: Spanish Civil War week?
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2013, 05:41:52 PM »
If we are just going to run the I-16 against the 109E and use HE-111 for both. what makes this any different than an early Russian front campaign?
That seems a valid point.
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Spanish Civil War week?
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2013, 06:27:30 PM »
The scenery and the weather. :D

Offline Nr_RaVeN

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Re: Spanish Civil War week?
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2013, 07:02:35 PM »
lets wish for some SCW aircraft...again... :)
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