Roll Rates

[gyrene81]

Appreciate your comments, but, if u do a split S, sir, you would be going towards the ground, not climbing up to attack me! LOL In a Chandell, you would be hanging in the sky like a leaf on a tree, don't understand how you think that would be the correct thing to do.

sorry Earl but you go ahead and keep pulling loops then wondering how people are using "wild gyrations" to shoot you down...   

[Zacherof]

HiTech's sig seems pretty apt here

[colmbo]

We sometimes see things in game that look "odd" due to lag/connection issues.

I don't have any big issues with flight models in AH...but I have enough B-17 time to say the roll rate is too high, and I have enough B-24 time to say the Liberator in AH is way too forgiving below 100IAS.

[earl1937]

We sometimes see things in game that look "odd" due to lag/connection issues.

I don't have any big issues with flight models in AH...but I have enough B-17 time to say the roll rate is too high, and I have enough B-24 time to say the Liberator in AH is way too forgiving below 100IAS.

Thanks, glad someone besides me has noticed that also...I keep forgetting that some of these guys who answer posts are not trained pilots as you and I, so I get some funny answers sometimes...but I enjoy the forum....fun at times

[earl1937]

sorry Earl but you go ahead and keep pulling loops then wondering how people are using "wild gyrations" to shoot you down...   

I don't always do loops, sir, depends on the situation

[RedBull1]

Thanks, glad someone besides me has noticed that also...I keep forgetting that some of these guys who answer posts are not trained pilots as you and I, so I get some funny answers sometimes...but I enjoy the forum....fun at times

They might not all be trained pilots, but they do know the game mechanics and why some things appear the way they do better than some of us... Gyrene, Karnak, and Muzik pretty much summed it up... The roll rates match NACA. Sure people do unrealistic stuff a lot, but it's a game..and it's going to have unrealistic attributes as all games do. Another explanation, as stated, could be lag (or a number of things).

While I respect those of you that are real pilots, sometimes you also need to step down from your pedestal and talk to us non-pilots

[Arlo]

I don't always do loops, sir, depends on the situation

Hiya, Earl. I'm glad you're active on the forum and part of the community, sir. 

[Zacherof]

Hiya, Earl. I'm glad you're active on the forum and part of the community, sir. 

don't mind arlo. Forgot to put him back in his cage 

[Oldman731]

While I respect those of you that are real pilots, sometimes you also need to step down from your pedestal and talk to us non-pilots

He was doing that.  As soon as he did, people started jumping down his throat.

We all have our own experiences.  HiTech has his RV8 (or whichever one it is), Colmbo has many hours in B-17s and B-24s, as well as Cessna 182s and who knows what else.  Earl1937 flew B-29s and has significant other real world experience that most of us do not.  If he and Colmbo agree that roll rates are off, I would not dismiss that because of a chart I saw once.  My own reading of this thread suggests that the amount of force a real world pilot is likely to exert against the stick, compared with what a gamer has to exert against his, may account for different perspectives.

- oldman

[RedBull1]

He was doing that.  As soon as he did, people started jumping down his throat.

We all have our own experiences.  HiTech has his RV8 (or whichever one it is), Colmbo has many hours in B-17s and B-24s, as well as Cessna 182s and who knows what else.  Earl1937 flew B-29s and has significant other real world experience that most of us do not.  If he and Colmbo agree that roll rates are off, I would not dismiss that because of a chart I saw once.  My own reading of this thread suggests that the amount of force a real world pilot is likely to exert against the stick, compared with what a gamer has to exert against his, may account for different perspectives.

- oldman

I would trust these charts more than these real world pilots. Why? Because, yes they've flown real life aircraft like the B29 and B17...Hell, I've flown Cessnas..that doesn't mean any of us know exactly how a Spit16 or 109F rolled in WWII

[Citabria]

earl. the plane flight models are fine. (yes I know your a b29 guy and I think that is amazing and I have enjoyed your posts on the subject)

what you are really asking for is to make the player feel the discomfort of certain maneuvers like a high neg g pushover (they would love how they felt after doing that over and over like they do in game), rolling so fast in one direction then reversing the roll the opposite direction with full stick deflection so fast you hit your head on the canopy (done this in a pits a few times)

I believe what is modelled in game is well done. what isn't modelled is what bothers you.

if you put in "pilot dosn't like it" limitations on a flight model that is designed to be as true as possible to the actual airframes capabilities it puts things in a more murky area than the current hard numbers approach.

and lets cut to the chase...

you got shot down before you posted or the bandit you were shooting at squirmed away. if the enemy died and you lived and shot the little wriggling sucker I don't think this thread would exist right now

remember the human equation to earl. Every dweeb that plays this game believes that they are the greatest cartoon airplane pilot in the world and anything that gets in the way of that perception must be ignored or explained away.

I am certain I am the greatest cartoon airplane pilot evar too.

[Karnak]

I would not dismiss that because of a chart I saw once.

Sorry, but that is roadkill.  It is not a chart I have seen once and vaguely remembered.

Here it is:


I will take tested data over rough recollections, thank you very much.

[muzik]

He was doing that.  As soon as he did, people started jumping down his throat.

I was not discounting him or trying to criticize him.

Hiya, Earl. I'm glad you're active on the forum and part of the community, sir. 

I concur with this.

Some of the responses were too much considering Earl is one of the most respectful posters in the forums. But maybe he's hiding a nasty troll personality, I've always had the feeling he's just waiting for a chance to bounce me.

[colmbo]

I would trust these charts more than these real world pilots. Why? Because, yes they've flown real life aircraft like the B29 and B17...Hell, I've flown Cessnas..that doesn't mean any of us know exactly how a Spit16 or 109F rolled in WWII

And I wouldn't argue with data (unless I doubted it's accuracy).  I might argue that a particular AH aircraft doesn't match known data, or in the case of an in game aircraft I've flown (P-51, B-17, B-24) I might comment that my experience real life doesn't match in game performance, for instance the roll rate of the B-17.  The B-17 is the only airplane I've flown real-life where I commonly used full aileron deflection during routine flight.  Especially if maneuvering as for a show pass.  In game I can do the same type flying and rarely need full aileron, I'm able to get as great or greater rates of roll with less control deflection then needed on the actual aircraft.  Do I know how many degrees a second is the correct rate for a B-17?  Nope.  I wonder if that data exists?

[earl1937]

My BIG wish is for Aces High to slow down the roll rate of the aircraft in the game! I see things in here all the time, that if you did it in a "real" aircraft, you would become a "lawn" dart very quickly. Of course, I realize this is a video game and is designed for the pleasure of many different skill level players. Another way they could slow down some of these wild gyrations of aircraft in a furball, is to black out the pilot when he exceeds a certain standard of roll rate. Of course this wish comes from my desire for AH to make the "game" a little more realistic in the flight characteristics of aircraft, but that is probably asking to much.
A good example of "can't be done" is when a "bandit" is on my six, 1.0k back and I start a loop, and while I am inverted at the top, I look down and the guy chasing me does what looks like a 90 degree change in direction to the vertical, catches me slow and on my back, shoots me down...He should have accelerate stalled his aircraft doing that and snap rolled down. If it was a "real" aircraft, he would have started a loop also to chase me, and while inverted on my back and slow, pop 50% flaps, do a left hand 360 degree turn and come out on his six or catch him inverted and shoot him down. A lot of aircraft were shot down  in WW2 and Korea, using that tactic!

  To all who responded to this thread! Didn't mean to start a fuss, its just that I see things in this game, if executed in a real aircraft, would be a blacked out pilot, or lose both wings and become a lawn dart. Maybe I just asked the wrong question...again, as always, just trying to post suggestions to improve the game and help Hi Tech pick up customers. Some of the guys I play in here with are starting to play a new game,(won't mention the name), because the aircraft are more realistic in flight than in AH. I realize that the size of the servers would limit the number of players who could play at one time, but I personally believe there is a vast reservoir of new players that would be in the game, but after a two week trail, a lot of them are moving on, looking for that realistic flight sim.