Pilot Wounds BS

[Wiley]

  Willey,

  I wasn't disputing the PW's in the 47,I was merely pointing out that it happens more often in twins for whatever reason. Might be as you say a soft target,a larger target,whatever.  I think my real point was not to let a couple of bad sorties ruin anyones fun.


   

Sorry if I came across combative, it wasn't meant as such.   I agree, excrement occurs.  TBH it seems to me PW's are up across the board for some reason, but it could be a simple case of counting the hits and ignoring the misses too.  On a psychological level, I wish there was a way to know how close my 75% number is.

In any case, if I get PW'ed I look at it as 'I should be dead now, let's see if I can get home/survive the engagement.'

Wiley.

[gyrene81]

there were far fewer pilots getting wounded and talking about it than there were those who died from their wounds and never got a chance to tell their tales...if you're pissed because you got pw'd attacking bombers, you were doing something wrong.

Of all the times I have been hit, I think I have had one rudder shot away and a couple ailerons shot away. That's all. Lots of oil leaks.

that right there tells me there is nothing wrong with the way the 47s are modelled...

[Myg]

You think that's bad for modelling?

Try flying a 410 and seeing how easily the mechanics for the tail gun are knocked out, at least 60 or 70% of the time you lose both guns simultaneously to a slew of the first incoming shells. It is not fun at all.

To make things worse, the rear guns aren't even aligned vertically for 600 yards, the bullets at no time actually travel above the gunsite or are converged in any way to meet with the intended destination range making it impossible to hit out of first instinct unless you have a custom gunsite (it just reverses the forward gunsite as well for the rear position). By the time you realise you have to adjust for the target, it is usually too late, and the guns are dead.

[earl1937]

The number of pilot wounds received is just BS. I fly a P47 which was known to be a tough aircraft that could take a lot of damage. The pilot was well protected (read Robert Johnson's book). But if I get hit (but not killed on the first hit), way over 50% of the time I get a pilot wound. That's just BS. So I guess HTC believes that over 50% of the guys in the 56th fighter group went down because of pilot wounds. Bull. Absolute total Bull.

Of all the times I have been hit, I think I have had one rudder shot away and a couple ailerons shot away. That's all. Lots of oil leaks. But pilot wounds .... 40-50 maybe. Way, way out of proportion. I guess the whole freaking German Luftwaffe fighter force either blew up on first hit or died/ were put out of action because of pilot wounds.

Died twice today from the same bomber pilot from pilot wounds. Couldn't land or even ditch my plane. So I know I have to just bail out if I have a pilot wound if more than about 14k away from base. So I guess in WWII no-one ever got home if they were pilot wounded. What complete BS!

So I believe strongly that a) there are too many pilot wounds proportionately to plane damage; b) pilot wounds result in death way too fast.

I will look up and start adding to this string stories of real pilots that were wounded but made it back to base. I'll start here with mention of a pilot in the Spanish Civil War (before Pearl Harbor) that was wounded in a fighter duel and landed. His name was Derek Dickinson and he defeated Bruno Mussolini in a pre-arranged fighter duel. He had 326 bullet holes in this plane, was shot in his left arm but still landed his plane. Read about it in "The Ragged, Rugged Warriors" by Martin Caidin. (Edit: ok we'll through this story out. I'll add other ones.)

Tex78

I too, have way to many pilot wounds in almost anything you want to fly!!! My problem with the Aces High programming is just this: A few little specks of blood on wind shield, 7 blackouts and dead! A medium amount of blood on windshield, 7 blackouts and dead! A lot of blood on windshield, 7 blackouts and dead! Anybody see anything wrong with these 3 examples of pilot wounds?
Of course I have no idea what the parameters are for pilot wounds in this game, but I doubt its anywhere close to real life.

[Kingpin]

Couldn't land or even ditch my plane. So I know I have to just bail out if I have a pilot wound if more than about 14k away from base.

I don't believe this is always true.  I have landed with pilot wounds many times from this distance or further, especially when bomber hunting at altitude and immediately nosing down to the nearest base.  It's not always easy, but it can be done fairly regularly once you figure it out.

...a pilot in the Spanish Civil War (before Pearl Harbor) that was wounded...

This story makes me curious: was it the Nationalists or Republicans who bombed Pearl Harbor?  

 
Ryno

[Vinkman]

The number of pilot wounds received is just BS. I fly a P47 which was known to be a tough aircraft that could take a lot of damage. The pilot was well protected (read Robert Johnson's book). But if I get hit (but not killed on the first hit), way over 50% of the time I get a pilot wound. That's just BS. So I guess HTC believes that over 50% of the guys in the 56th fighter group went down because of pilot wounds. Bull. Absolute total Bull.

Of all the times I have been hit, I think I have had one rudder shot away and a couple ailerons shot away. That's all. Lots of oil leaks. But pilot wounds .... 40-50 maybe. Way, way out of proportion. I guess the whole freaking German Luftwaffe fighter force either blew up on first hit or died/ were put out of action because of pilot wounds.

Died twice today from the same bomber pilot from pilot wounds. Couldn't land or even ditch my plane. So I know I have to just bail out if I have a pilot wound if more than about 14k away from base. So I guess in WWII no-one ever got home if they were pilot wounded. What complete BS!

So I believe strongly that a) there are too many pilot wounds proportionately to plane damage; b) pilot wounds result in death way too fast.

I will look up and start adding to this string stories of real pilots that were wounded but made it back to base. I'll start here with mention of a pilot in the Spanish Civil War (before Pearl Harbor) that was wounded in a fighter duel and landed. His name was Derek Dickinson and he defeated Bruno Mussolini in a pre-arranged fighter duel. He had 326 bullet holes in this plane, was shot in his left arm but still landed his plane. Read about it in "The Ragged, Rugged Warriors" by Martin Caidin. (Edit: ok we'll through this story out. I'll add other ones.)

Tex78

Tex,
The planes are tough...not the pilots. It's a plexiglass bubble protecting you from 23 .50cal Machine guns. Have you ever seen what a .50 cal will do to an engine block or to concrete? Imagine what 1 will do to a plastic bubble. Now imaging what 600 rounds per minute X 23 will do to a plastic bubble and the pilot inside. The "damage model" models the pilot in his cockpit. If the bullet hits you, then you are wounded or killed. It has nothing to do with the toughness of the plane. Just because the wings and tail can absorb a lot of rounds, doesn't mean the pilot can. The buffs aren't shooting through tthe wing to get to the pilot. They are shooting through the canopy. Canopy isn't tougher than other canopies.

Hunt on  

[whiteman]

after jaboing CV, Field and Town ack all weekend I received 1 pilot wound. Y'all might want to change your tactics.

[Triton28]

My PW's come in spurts.  My success in this game also seems to come in spurts.

I think the game knows when my suck is especially pronounced and goes ahead and puts me out of my misery with a PW.  Just as well I suppose.   

  

[Arlo]

You think that's bad for modelling?

Try flying a 410 and seeing how easily the mechanics for the tail gun are knocked out, at least 60 or 70% of the time you lose both guns simultaneously to a slew of the first incoming shells. It is not fun at all.

To make things worse, the rear guns aren't even aligned vertically for 600 yards, the bullets at no time actually travel above the gunsite or are converged in any way to meet with the intended destination range making it impossible to hit out of first instinct unless you have a custom gunsite (it just reverses the forward gunsite as well for the rear position). By the time you realise you have to adjust for the target, it is usually too late, and the guns are dead.

Bullet drop. Your 'first instinct' should be to aim a tick higher. And overall convergence appears to be set to 500 yds.

[Arlo]

I too, have way to many pilot wounds in almost anything you want to fly!!! My problem with the Aces High programming is just this: A few little specks of blood on wind shield, 7 blackouts and dead! A medium amount of blood on windshield, 7 blackouts and dead! A lot of blood on windshield, 7 blackouts and dead! Anybody see anything wrong with these 3 examples of pilot wounds?
Of course I have no idea what the parameters are for pilot wounds in this game, but I doubt its anywhere close to real life.

I and other squadies have gone up to 12 (12 being bleed-out and death).

[Nath[BDP]]

I agree, it's BS.

[gyrene81]

I agree, it's BS.

wait...what? 

puhleez say you're not one of those who think pilot wounds should not be possible...

[Eric19]

I fly the D11 quiet a bit for its armored glass in the front it makes for some nice bullet proofing against them nasty jap and German birds with the big cannons I have not once been PWed I that D11 or so I think can't remember last time I had PW lol

[Kingpin]

I agree, it's BS.

wait...what? 

puhleez say you're not one of those who think pilot wounds should not be possible...

Perhaps he means it's Bullet Spall that is wounding pilots.  In which case he could be right.  

[Myg]

Bullet drop. Your 'first instinct' should be to aim a tick higher. And overall convergence appears to be set to 500 yds.

(Image removed from quote.)

This is 500 yards tail gun (*default convergance, * can't change it anyways).



This is 500 yards front gun (default convergance).



The only difference between this and the previous tail gun shot is that there is a first set of holes I made with one of the side guns at a lower speed. You notice how it is higher right? Its still *not center* despite being on line when fired at 500 yards.

What is the point of convergance or even a gunsite at all if it is not configured to fire to the center of it?

These are 131s btw, like a .50 cal, but lighter rounds.