One of the factors in scenarios is the likelihood that very few players have experience fighting at high altitude. It's a different world up high.
Absolutely. Scenario regulars have experience in high-alt fighting, but non regulars usually don't. It would be nice if they would get some experience in it, but most players do not practice much for a scenario and gain their experience the harder way.
Most scenarios have higher-alt fighting as part of it, and any scenario with 8th AF has lots of extremely high-alt fighting. Also a factor in scenarios is that the fights almost always start out as many on many, which changes the character enormously from one on one.
Wotan and I flew a P-47D-25 vs a 109G6 at 30k. Up that high, the 109 was outclassed. Wotan had to take the fight down hill. At 25k it was closer to even. At 20k the 109 began to show it's strength. Below that, the 109 was notably better (I'm talking maneuver fighting). It clearly showed us the relative strengths of both types. 190Ds are pigs at 30k. Still carry some speed, but they maneuver like dump trucks up that high.
I don't doubt that an expert in a one on one fighting at 30k will have advantages in a P-47 or P-51. In scenarios, G-6's do OK, though, and actual outcome in the scenario seems to me a direct measure of their suitability for that environment. There are various reasons that they do OK in that environment. One is that the 109's are often moving ahead to find bombers, and the sweep P-51's encountering them are heading in the opposite direction. The P-51's have to reverse course to chase the 109's, whereas the 109's can just keep flying ahead. That 180 saps a lot of speed at 34k and takes a lot of time and distance to complete. Or the P-51's and P-47's are escorts going a lot less than what otherwise would be their top speeds, so G-6's at a G-6 top speed are faster than they are. Many, many times, I have taken 109 groups up the tail of the bomber stream forcing escorts to maneuver or get shot, and it isn't the result of inexperienced or inept escort pilots -- those escort pilots are some of the game's and scenarios' most-experienced, best pilots. It's just one of the dynamics of escorting. There is the aspect you point out, too -- the G-6 in a mix-it-up fight starting at high alt brings the fight lower (as do most people fighting starting at high alt just as a natural part of what happens once they start mixing it up). The many-on-many aspect reduces the relative importance of various performance differences in the aircraft as well. A P-51 or P-47 can't lead turn into the pack of 109's, or he is subject to getting shot in the tail; and if he goes after the trailing 109, maybe that tail-end Charlie (or two or three) is in trouble, but the rest of the guys blast ahead toward the bombers.
190D's absolutely have problems turning much or climbing at 30k or 34k. But again I have flown them a lot at high alts in scenarios (Winter Sky and DGS II) in groups that have done OK vs. P-51's, P-47's, P-38's, Tempests, and even Spit 14's for reasons like the above. 190D's are worse at turning at climbing at those extreme alts than 109's, but they are very fast, handle very crisply (in roll and pitch), have great guns, and lots of ammo. I love the 190D in scenarios.
Another example was 190A-5's vs. Spit IX's in Enemy Coast Ahead. I expected the 190's to get annihilated by the horde of Spit IX's, but to my surprise they did very well against the Spit IX's. They were very well suited to the style of scenario fights. Scenario fighting is a much different world of fighting, I find.
Widewing, do you fly in scenarios? If not, it would be great to have you join us, and I think you might enjoy it.
