109 trim indicator like the other planes please!

[Franz Von Werra]

PLEASE put the 109's rudder at top and aileron at bottom of the gauge set! (like all the other planes). (never mind that other type like 262's that have three small dials in a dial)
PLEASE scoot the 109 trim gauges to the left and down please so not behind the gunsight or hidden if scoot chair forward or up a bit to see over hood!
PLEASE put all the Luftwaffe planes the 190type guage, more precise markings.
Trim gauges are 'add on' anyways, I didn't see any idicators when looking at cockpit real pics!

Manual Trim: trying to set up to not use combat trim at all.
Trying to set up charts for trim settings at all speeds for 109s and 190s, so can look at printout paper to right of monitor and see where they should be at current speed full throttle and work it from there maybe. Practice to learn how it effects at half throttle also maybe. Probly just roll trim it a little with throttle change.
I have a sliders for all of it on Saitek x52, should all be do'able.

The only oddball one is the 109 that has rudder trim at bottom, UPSIDE DOWN of the other Luftwaffe fighter, the 190... why?  Das ist gesindel! 

Not sure if altitude affects these settings in rl or in game, one thing at a time.
Yes in real life because faster at alt, so have to trim plane down to counter lift so going by indicated I guess.

PLEASE also fix 190s from nosing up and 410s from nosing down! These are why learning manual trim is mandatory for these two if ask me!

Respectfully, please do this stuff, please!

[Lusche]

PLEASE also fix 190s from nosing up and 410s from nosing down! These are why learning manual trim is mandatory for these two if ask me!

I never had any issue like that in the 190's / Me 410 and never I had to use manual trim in these (unlike a number of other planes). And I did use them heavily with quite some success for years

[Zacherof]

Been flying 190's for for a long time, NEVER been an issue.

Would you happen to have trim dials on your joystick that aren't centered?

Don't touch the trim either(unless in a dive)

[FA_Refugee]

like other planes?  like the HurriII, I can't even find it.
 
yea I'm old and my eyes aren't like they used to be...but I'm looking for a clue as to where it is.

[Franz Von Werra]

To the point: If have to learn to fly without trim, which might greatly improve a pilots performance, at least have it consistent!
A) please put the 109's rudder trim indicator on top and its aileron trim indicator on bottom so it is consistent not only with the 190, but also most of the plane set.
OR
B) just switch the 190's rudder indicator to bottom and aileron indicator to top so consistent with 109. <--- this wouldn't make sense because tail is higher than ailerons in every plane, so first one please.

Lusche, you have earned the achievement for "the kings not wearing any clothes" and you know it! And you might get an HTC medal for it too, no idea, grats if you do!

Refuge, I checked, hurri's have the 'three dials in a large dial' bottom left area of dashboard... difficult to fly if doing manual trim since small dials, and few notch markers.

[Zacherof]

Has it occured to you that the cockpits are historically setup? And HTC probally did what they did for a reason?

And your one of the first I've seen to bring up this issue.

And all the luf pilots I know, don't have an issue with this

[Franz Von Werra]

Zach... if your stuff continues, I'm just going to ignore your posts.
I'm taking the time to answer you, this time, for your sake.

Been flying 190's for for a long time, NEVER been an issue.
How insulting, ITS OBVIOUSLY AN ISSUE TO ME. I have a right to call it an issue, if not for you that's fine but WHY POST IN HERE AT ALL THEN? 99% of threads I pass on, you should do the same. Someone complain about graphics for example, they are just fine to me, I don't need to insult their wish, thanks!
And I have flown this from at least 2008, and years back in the first versions of this game too, Air Warrior2, Air Warrior3. When AW3 closed, and AH1 came out. I tested it, decided NO, it had too many of the same issues that Aw3 had, to me. Also, I flew just about all the Microsoft Flightsims from 1995 onward, only flightsim 2002 I didn't get because the game took out the towers from 9/11. I haven't been flying flightsimX because the only 109s are payware... one day I might pay for them but I expected new version for a long time, flightsimX is like 2006 - Gates abandoned Flightsim. Microsoft Combatsim also, didn't get combatsim3 for upset reasons.
I played many other sims before Air Warrior1 came out. Including in 1984 - P51 and SR-71 for Radio Shack CoCo's (color computers). Lots of 'Home Councel' games also Mig29 for Sega was first home game that was full take off and land sim game even had rudders, some f4 phantom game, other fighter plane games for lots of systems...
THIS IS THE ONLY ONE THAT I'VE SEEN THAT DRIFTS, OHKAAAY? This goes back to 70's... I was around when 'Astroids' And Space Invaders and Pong were the ONLY 3 games.
So your LONG TIME MEANS NOTHING TO ME. Soooo don't insult THE REST OF US by assuming only you have 'LONG TIME.'
Asteroids game: only when the buttons were broken or the retarded guy was playing did the ship always turn in one direction.
DONT UNDER ESTIMATE THE COMPANY YOU ARE IN. HARD CORE SIMMERS IN HERE ALL OVER THE PLACE.

Would you happen to have trim dials on your joystick that aren't centered?
WTH again? HOW INSULTING AGAIN. Even with FUUUUULLLL COMBAT TRIM ON, FULL THROTTLE, and WEP OFF.. IT DRIFTS,  HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TRIM WHEELS WHEN ITS DRIFTING. Sooo now you are falsely INSULTING my equipment.

Don't touch the trim either(unless in a dive)
Now you are telling me how to fly? If I want to fly with my gear down until they break (or not break like an f4u) each and every, its my preference, my style, so I CAN, not up to you!  And you are wrong... switching combat trim off with only the elevator trim free to our control to help pull out of a dive... if you are only using it in a dive, you are a noob, get lessons.
IT WILL ALSO HELP WHEN THE DIVE IS A TURN FACING ANY DIRECTION - IF, the plane isn't stall-shuddering or the pilot isn't blacking out or fully blacked out.

Has it occured to you that the cockpits are historically setup? And HTC probally did what they did for a reason?
OMG... you have no clue here or are flat out FLAME BAITING or just INSULTING for whatever reason. Those trim position indicators look like what were really AMO COUNTERS and from my basic search, they don't all have amo counters in that same area or type of gauge.
Further more, just about the only planes that had amo counters were Luftwaffe so the actual amo counters with numbers shouldn't be on any plane.
On top of that, I'm not sure if any ww2 fighters had trim position indicators on the dash at all. I checked 109s, didn't see, checked spits, didn't see. If you find some, no probs, POST.
If going to have trim stuff on dash, why not make them visible or somewhat standard... why is 109 only upside down one especially when 190 isn't also.

And your one of the first I've seen to bring up this issue.
This means nothing, fallacy, lots of players know of it, they just might not be the type to HO the game programmers about it. And the allied players that HATE Luftwaffe planes have 'bugs' especially in the 'aiming department.' Get Lusche here to make a graph, how many rare 410 flights have the bomber killer cannon on them?
Any questions why the 410 is a hangar queen? Lots of 3-set bombers but sooo few 410 flights, and even fewer 410 with the cannon flights.
The FACT that the 410 it a hangar queen is a statement, by the majority of the game, allied guys and or Luftwaffe guys alike.  

And all the luf pilots I know, don't have an issue with this :old
I'm not asking for any back up from the other Luftwaffe players. They don't need to post here and become 'targeted' by you or anyone else. Again this is FACT, fly it straight and watch the 190 go into a climb till it stalls out all butt backwards sideways. The 410 goes into a dive till crash. Do not need a vote.
And for your info, 190's and 410's ARE NOT THE ONLY PLANES WITH THIS ISSUE, some allied planes have this issue.

If you only intended to call me out, GRATS, I said most of it now.
Stop the condescending down talk trying to imply you are an expert and me or the rest of us are idiots.
Don't mind me ignoring your posts if you continue this path. And btw, when you say illogical stuff like this, your whole entire credibility goes OUT THE WINDOW.
 

[Franz Von Werra]

Oh, and no hard feelings, all good.

[gyrene81]

         don't mind ole' Franz there...seems anytime someone disagrees with him or tries to set him straight it's greeted with dramatic diatribe.

for someone who has supposedly been flying sims for so long one would think the op had this stuff figured out already. the only thing he has right is the fact that trim indicators did not exist as seen in game, they are a game concession. i've found what was claimed to be an elevator trim indicator dial that was supposed to be from a 109g-k series instrument panel but it wasn't mounted and the guy couldn't say where on the panel it would have been. in reality the rudder and ailerons had manual trim tabs that were set by the ground crew. they were not adjustable from the cockpit.

the rudder and aileron trim are a non-issue, if they aren't touched they should be correct for take off and level flight as soon as you spawn from the hangar. if you're taking off manually, trying to use the rudder and aileron trim to correct your flight line while rolling down the runway is not a good thing to do.  

WTH again? HOW INSULTING AGAIN. Even with FUUUUULLLL COMBAT TRIM ON, FULL THROTTLE, and WEP OFF.. IT DRIFTS,  HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TRIM WHEELS WHEN ITS DRIFTING. Sooo now you are falsely INSULTING my equipment.

combat trim controls the elevators, and it will auto adjust as long as it's enabled. the "drifting" in flight is a consequence of the forces of engine torque being modeled...evidently that factor was lacking in the other "sims" you flew. not sure why anyone would try to fly with their hand off the stick without going to auto pilot but to each his own. i've been able to do it in 109s with my stick for 1 or 2 minutes at a time, but i don't use combat trim and i make sure the plane is set for level flight by going to auto level for a few seconds.

[Zacherof]

 
Well it seems like I've gone and twisted someones knickers.
Franz by no means was my response meant to put you down, either as a pilot or an individual. Nor am I trying to imply my uberness, or lack there of.

I asked several things on the basis that you appeared as a knowledgable first timer. Due to the fact I like helping others I took time out of my post increasing   to give my apparently befuddled views. You nay have been playin sims longer than me fine

As to 190's, 190's are currently my main ride. Flown them periodicly over the 6 years as a player. I can't remember how they were before AH2. Point is I'm very familiar with this aircraft. As such I feel like I have the ability to speak my mind in such matters.

Btw, would you like the ammo counters to be moved in some planes?    

And if I wanted to call you out, I wouldn't be so nice

So this is my last post in this thread.

as I'm apparently illogical(might be right there), rude and insulting(man if you think those are insults, just try and piss me off  ) and I have a condensating tone

Please understand again none of this was an attack on you, your skill, or your knowledge.
 
 

[Franz Von Werra]

From
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,349791.0.html

gyrene81... try and insult, using fallacies, and flamebait, violating roc all day long... I report everytime now and the mods do nothing - so far.

I don't care what your education is. I don't care what your titles are. I don't care what you've done, or what you will do in the future. YOU COULD NEVER TELL ME CRAP on any topic.

Add grammar issues but I'm sure that somehow it explains these topics:
1) Why the 109s rudder trim indicator is at the bottom while the others of this type of gauge are at the top.
2) Why some of the game's planes drift nose-up, at any speed, while most of the planes in the game don't.
3) Why some of the game's planes drift nose-down, at any speed, while most of the planes in the game don't.

Which is the point of this thread - if planes drift then we should try to fly using manual trim, but with inconsistent indicators, for 109s and 190s, it makes for unacceptable headaches.
Also, that manual trimming might be a key to getting the most out of our airplanes, all might try to learn it.

[ink]

 


oh sorry was me laughing at you insulting?????



 

[Zacherof]

oh sorry was me laughing at you insulting?????



 

pffft
 

[gyrene81]

   Ink is really on a tear this month...  

From
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,349791.0.html

Add grammar issues but I'm sure that somehow it explains these topics:
1) Why the 109s rudder trim indicator is at the bottom while the others of this type of gauge are at the top.
2) Why some of the game's planes drift nose-up, at any speed, while most of the planes in the game don't.
3) Why some of the game's planes drift nose-down, at any speed, while most of the planes in the game don't.

Which is the point of this thread - if planes drift then we should try to fly using manual trim, but with inconsistent indicators, for 109s and 190s, it makes for unacceptable headaches.
Also, that manual trimming might be a key to getting the most out of our airplanes, all might try to learn it.

well i wasn't going to say anything about it but i'm glad you're acknowledging your grammar issues as well as the rest of the problems you appear to have. it's said that's the first step in fixing the problems.

i have to ask, why are you looking at the rudder trim indicator, especially in a 109? it's not useful and won't correct the nose up "drift" you describe. neither will the aileron trim. elevator trim is the only useful trim, but with combat trim on even that's useless.

you would have to study the aero-dynamics on the real life airframes to figure out why some nose up and others nose down. the shape, loading, placement of the wings and the control surfaces can affect different planes in different ways. the fact that not all airplanes do it is a good indicator that the flight models are closer to reality than people tend to realize.

[ink]

 Ink is really on a tear this month...  

well i wasn't going to say anything about it but i'm glad you're acknowledging your grammar issues as well as the rest of the problems you appear to have. it's said that's the first step in fixing the problems.

i have to ask, why are you looking at the rudder trim indicator, especially in a 109? it's not useful and won't correct the nose up "drift" you describe. neither will the aileron trim. elevator trim is the only useful trim, but with combat trim on even that's useless.

you would have to study the aero-dynamics on the real life airframes to figure out why some nose up and others nose down. the shape, loading, placement of the wings and the control surfaces can affect different planes in different ways. the fact that not all airplanes do it is a good indicator that the flight models are closer to reality than people tend to realize.

 

figure if Zachs post which was anything but insulting would get that.....oh what will I get