Author Topic: Jadgetiger  (Read 1161 times)

Offline Chalenge

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Re: Jadgetiger
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2013, 01:32:31 AM »
Except all tanks move at their on-road speeds, off-road in AH.

I think you missed the point. The Jagdtiger had a gun that was especially sensitive to rough terrain. All terrain in AHII is smooth, even the off road terrain. The Jagdtiger was poorly built, poorly designed, and did not make much contribution to the war because of that. However, in AHII all of its weaknesses would not exist.
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Jadgetiger
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2013, 02:09:23 AM »
I think you missed the point. The Jagdtiger had a gun that was especially sensitive to rough terrain. All terrain in AHII is smooth, even the off road terrain. The Jagdtiger was poorly built, poorly designed, and did not make much contribution to the war because of that. However, in AHII all of its weaknesses would not exist.

Quite arguable about the design. It was built as a heavy TD, with a specific purpose in mind: make sure your target dies, even if it's an IS-2 at long range.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Jadgetiger
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2013, 02:31:24 AM »
Quite arguable about the design. It was built as a heavy TD, with a specific purpose in mind: make sure your target dies, even if it's an IS-2 at long range.

It was poorly designed.  It was over weight, had an under-powered engine, the gun needed to be re-calibrated after off road travel because of the 8 wheel Porsche type transmission which was unsuitable for off-road use (the more modern 9 wheel Porsche transmission was slightly better), the transmission and differentials were prone to breaking down and other myriad of issues that plagued it.  All the result of poor design.

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Offline Zacherof

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Re: Jadgetiger
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2013, 02:35:43 AM »
elefant please :rofl
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Offline chris3

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Re: Jadgetiger
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2013, 03:59:26 AM »
It was poorly designed.  It was over weight, had an under-powered engine, the gun needed to be re-calibrated after off road travel because of the 8 wheel Porsche type transmission which was unsuitable for off-road use (the more modern 9 wheel Porsche transmission was slightly better), the transmission and differentials were prone to breaking down and other myriad of issues that plagued it.  All the result of poor design.

ack-ack

this argumentig could be used for Tiger II, Tiger I and Panthers. of corse the Jagtiger was the heviest. But in its devensive rool thay have some suces in the end of war. The Only unit that caused an ovicial Town Hand over to the U.S. was an Jagdtiger unit. You will finde some stuff at youtupe if you search the town name Iserlon and Jagdtiger. The Jagtiger were able to control at longrange a wide open area in this hilliside area.

You are right the Porsch suspension sucked and was aberdone after some testings. The porsch suspension was only planed to save some time during producing the hull.

cu christian

Offline Butcher

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Re: Jadgetiger
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2013, 08:40:06 AM »
It was poorly designed.  It was over weight, had an under-powered engine, the gun needed to be re-calibrated after off road travel because of the 8 wheel Porsche type transmission which was unsuitable for off-road use (the more modern 9 wheel Porsche transmission was slightly better), the transmission and differentials were prone to breaking down and other myriad of issues that plagued it.  All the result of poor design.

ack-ack

Sounds more like the Panther and Tiger with the numerous problems they had along with the King Tiger. Frankly with the JagdPanther we really don't need the Tiger version. Fact is its going to sit on concrete like most do with perk tanks who can't GV.

Without having the ability to engage long range (unless you plan on driving off concrete which 90% wont do) you have to climb up a hill around a base assuming you even have 4k to see in most maps you don't. So nobody is going to risk taking it off concrete.
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Offline fullmetalbullet

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Re: Jadgetiger
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2013, 09:18:48 AM »
Sounds more like the Panther and Tiger with the numerous problems they had along with the King Tiger. Frankly with the JagdPanther we really don't need the Tiger version. Fact is its going to sit on concrete like most do with perk tanks who can't GV.

Without having the ability to engage long range (unless you plan on driving off concrete which 90% wont do) you have to climb up a hill around a base assuming you even have 4k to see in most maps you don't. So nobody is going to risk taking it off concrete.

Frankly i agree with it not really needed. but then again the 251 was not needed either compaired to the M3. i still think it should be added. think of a battle of the bulge special event. not very many air battles but lots of ground battles. sure alot of people want air combat and dogfighting, but really what i have seen is more and more people joining the gv scene. and plus ignoring one GV because we have another gv cappable of the same role is stupid. so i say add the jagdtiger, but only after russia and britain are added in higher numbers.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 11:53:34 AM by fullmetalbullet »
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: Jadgetiger
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2013, 12:29:22 PM »
think of a battle of the bulge special event. not very many air battles but lots of ground battles.
:lol  special events with tanks end up being whine fests. besides, the "battle of the bulge" was german heavy infantry with heavy armor and artillery support against u.s. and british infantry, and there is no infantry here.
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Offline fullmetalbullet

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Re: Jadgetiger
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2013, 01:26:57 PM »
:lol  special events with tanks end up being whine fests. besides, the "battle of the bulge" was german heavy infantry with heavy armor and artillery support against u.s. and british infantry, and there is no infantry here.

Maybe back then. but i think it might change as we get new tanks and tank destroyers. think of late war eastern front aswell. if HTC does things right then more and more people may come over from games like WoT and preferably people from the forgotten hope 2 mod for BF2. sure this will probrably be torn apart and called stupid, but i have an open mind unlike many people in this game who think that it should be air only no ground and no infantry. well this game cannot expand untill you give something that others want. and in truth more people like the ground action in games then air action.

Thats why FPSs do so much better then air only combat games. i have heard that HTC wants to dive into the FPS or add infantry to Aces High sometime in the future(dont know when). to me thats a welcome thing. because it means more people will want to play because it will have something for everyone. me personally i love the ground game, i do better on the ground in aces high then in the air so the more vehicles and ground combat expansions HTC adds the better in my opinion.
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: Jadgetiger
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2013, 01:59:47 PM »
Maybe back then. but i think it might change as we get new tanks and tank destroyers. think of late war eastern front aswell. if HTC does things right then more and more people may come over from games like WoT and preferably people from the forgotten hope 2 mod for BF2. sure this will probrably be torn apart and called stupid, but i have an open mind unlike many people in this game who think that it should be air only no ground and no infantry. well this game cannot expand untill you give something that others want. and in truth more people like the ground action in games then air action.

Thats why FPSs do so much better then air only combat games. i have heard that HTC wants to dive into the FPS or add infantry to Aces High sometime in the future(dont know when). to me thats a welcome thing. because it means more people will want to play because it will have something for everyone. me personally i love the ground game, i do better on the ground in aces high then in the air so the more vehicles and ground combat expansions HTC adds the better in my opinion.
maybe not a "stupid" idea per se' but...your reasoning as to why fps games do so much better than air only combat games is a bit stupid. you don't appear to have taken several factors into consideration. pc only vs console and pc distribution is the big one. then there is the multiplayer factor, xbox live and the playstation network make it much easier than the pc world. if the battlefield, call of duty and medal of honor franchises had remained pc only, their sales figures would not be what they are.
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Offline fullmetalbullet

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Re: Jadgetiger
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2013, 02:56:59 PM »
maybe not a "stupid" idea per se' but...your reasoning as to why fps games do so much better than air only combat games is a bit stupid. you don't appear to have taken several factors into consideration. pc only vs console and pc distribution is the big one. then there is the multiplayer factor, xbox live and the playstation network make it much easier than the pc world. if the battlefield, call of duty and medal of honor franchises had remained pc only, their sales figures would not be what they are.

The figures still stand though. regardless if its PC or console. FPS has done better then air combat games. even air only games on consoles have not beaten FPSs. But what we should be pointing out is that it is a good thing that HTC is expanding the ground combat. i like how they have changed things for the better regardless if the transmissions are not the way they used to be or the gunsights are not the old style. and tearing about 800nates wish for the jagdtiger saying thats its not neaded is shameful(not that im saying it was you who said it and im not pointing the finger at you at all gyrene, just telling that someone on this topic did say it.)

Now back to the topic, i think in my honest opinion the jagdtiger should be added in further down the road(not now) but later on even if they only made 80 of them and very very few made it to the end of the war intact. but right now i think as many do that russian and britain should be represented in the ground scene in a larger group.(more tanks and light armored vehicles maybe ever trucks for all sides.) but russia does need more tanks in aces high. so lets put the jagdtiger on the back burner for now and vote for the KV tanks(KV1, KV2, and KV-85.
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: Jadgetiger
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2013, 03:11:47 PM »
The figures still stand though. regardless if its PC or console. FPS has done better then air combat games. even air only games on consoles have not beaten FPSs.
don't give credit where it's not due, the figures are skewed. fps sales on pc started waning badly after the top 3 game franchises failed to deliver on gameplay not to mention cheaters spoiled the genre pretty badly, then the ps3 and xbox360 hit the streets and fps sales started soaring again, primarily due to the multiplayer factor...and subsequently the number of squeaker armchair generals increased exponentially. air combat games are too complex for the squeakers and the people who are interested in flying don't like to fly with game pads.


there really isn't any rational reason to add the jagdtiger...it's cool looking and that is the only merit it has.
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Offline Mano

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Re: Jadgetiger
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2013, 07:42:15 PM »
A couple quotes from Wikipedia.

 The Jagdtiger was the heaviest armored fighting vehicle operationally used during World War II. The vehicle carried a 128 mm PaK 44 L/55 main gun, capable of out-ranging and defeating any fielded Allied tank. It saw service in small numbers from late 1944 to the end of the war on both the Western and Eastern Front. Tiger ace Otto Carius commanded a company of Jagdtigers. His post-war memoir provides a rare combat history of the Jagdtigers which had been under his command. Although 150 were ordered, only between 77 to 88 were produced.

Tiger ace Otto Carius commanded the second of three companies of Jagdtigers in Panzerjagerabteilung 512. His memoir Tigers in the Mud provides a rare combat history of the ten Jagdtigers under his command. He states that Jagdtigers were not utilized to their full potential due to several factors: Among them that Allied air supremacy made it difficult to move, the massive gun needed to be re-calibrated from jarring after traveling off-road for even short distances[5] (Note: This particular problem was attributed more to the eight wheel Porsche type suspension which proved unfit for off-road terrain, causing excessive vibrations which over a short period could throw the gun out of calibration. More modern 9 wheel Henschel type suspension system from the King Tiger was thought to have less of this particular problem: which type Carius commanded is unknown), it was slow, and transmissions and differentials broke down easily because the whole 72 tonne vehicle needed to rotate to traverse the gun. The massive gun had to be locked down, otherwise mounting brackets would have worn too much for accurate firing. Also a crew member had to exit the vehicle in combat and unlock the gun before firing.[6] However, he also recorded that a 128 mm projectile went through all the walls of a house and destroyed an American tank behind it.[7]

If you would like to read the article :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagdtiger

Since we are talking about German vehicles, The Tiger, Panther G, and Tiger 2 were plagued with mechanical problems and were often abandoned by their crews.

I would like to see random engine stoppage or limits on how far these tanks can travel before their engine or transmission failed. Supplies could bring them back into service. It would add to the realism for these particular GV's.
Any other tanks with mechanical problems would suffer the same fate and can call out for supplies.

I like 800Nates suggestion. It would be a good addition to the game and should carry a perk price of 200 or more when the perk bonus is 1.0.

 :aok +1

 :salute





Good looking tank.  ;)
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 07:48:02 PM by Mano »
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Jadgetiger
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2013, 08:02:11 PM »
don't give credit where it's not due, the figures are skewed. fps sales on pc started waning badly after the top 3 game franchises failed to deliver on gameplay not to mention cheaters spoiled the genre pretty badly, then the ps3 and xbox360 hit the streets and fps sales started soaring again, primarily due to the multiplayer factor...and subsequently the number of squeaker armchair generals increased exponentially. air combat games are too complex for the squeakers and the people who are interested in flying don't like to fly with game pads.

Yep.

ack-ack
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Offline MrKrabs

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Re: Jadgetiger
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2013, 10:28:27 PM »
Y U NO HUNTERING TIGER! HTC!

NO! YOU KEEP THAT MONSTER AWAY!

The instant any JagTiger is seen, there will be many bombs, far worse than the KT...
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