I'm so flying that Yak!!!!

[Tilt]

It was certainly US supplies that enabled the the swift deployment of the Red Army during Bagration. It was back boned by massive numbers of US supplied trucks.

I am not so sure that US aid was so influential at Stalingrad during the winter of 1942.

It is always strange to me that various nationalities claim kudos for " winning the war" via a variety of mechanisms. When I look at the casualty lists, such mechanisms are but fruitless propaganda. It is  the dead and the maimed that can truly claim the right IMO.

I apologise for  being a contributor to thread derailment...... .......

[GScholz]

Soviets lost over a million at Stalingrad ( considering all its phases) and over 600,000 at Kursk, 770,000 casualties during Bagration. In terms of deployed combatants and material Bagration is considered the greater. And loss of material to the Whermacht during Bagration was the greatest of all Whermacht defeats.

Soviets lost a million men at Kursk. 170,000+ during the German advance and 850,000+ during the Soviet counter attack.

[Brooke]

I apologise for  being a contributor to thread derailment...... .......

It's good and worthy information and discussion.

[Rich46yo]

As Stalin said at Yalta, "It takes a courageous man to not be brave in the Soviet Army".

[gyrene81]

As Stalin said at Yalta, "It takes a courageous man to not be brave in the Soviet Army".

lol, i've seen people get confused over that tidbit...considering Stalin's orders to his commanders, i'd say it's fitting.

[Fruda]

As I understood, most of the southern army headed south to go thru Turkey etc to get to the Suez cannal, go west, and then squish the allied armies in the North Africa, while Rommel attacked from the west to east. Hence putting a allies under a two front war in north africa.

By the time of Stalingrad, USA made, USA paid machines, guns, food, supplies AND EVEN STALIN'S LUNCH, was arriving in Stalingrad and againt all of Germany's fronts. At the same time, Germany armies were as far away from Berlin as ever so German's supplies were at an all time low. Fighting on three fronts, west in air vs USAF b17s and b24s (let alone the garrison army to protect from any d-day attempts, like the battle of Dieppe), south in africa then in Italy, and in the east vs Russia.  To get to the point, all the Reich was surprised by the seemingly endless supplied opponents.

The other point is, that for the larger(?) portion of the Germany army that had gone south to squish with Rommel, now needed time to retreat or be cut off. By the time it came back, Paulus in Stalingrad was totally surrounded due to other axis armies being overran. Paulus had to stand or die to save the other retreating portion or there would have been no southern front at all.

It was USA supplies, their overwhelming impact, that won the battle of Stalingrad, and the fact that Hitler and his command didn't realize just how much was arriving on the opposing fronts. In a way, Paulus succeeded by 'saving' the southern portion enuf time to retreat.

One of the following battles of retreating German armies was in the crimea peninsula can be seen in the movie 'Cross of Iron' was pretty good, german side, entertaining. Sam Peckinpaw and James Coburn.

"I have a feeling that this whole thing is begining to slide" ~ Peckinpaw
"Here's to the cake!" ~ a german soldier
"Here's to the great German Wehrmact, even when its going down in defeat!" ~ another German soldier.

A good book on the subject; "the black march" by Peter Neuman, an SS soldier that was part of the army trying to save stalingrad, made it to the axis side of the front of stalingrad, but defeated. Read this for their state of mind and some horror stories.

No, seriously... I snorted when I saw the "STALIN'S LUNCH" part.

More to the point: you do realise most Soviet troops were equipped with PPSh machine guns and Mosin-Nagant rifles, right? Manufactured in the Soviet Union, even...

Another thing. The SS trying to SAVE Stalingrad? I'm sure you know how many millions of people the SS murdered in the Soviet Union. Absolutely appalling and ridiculous to make that claim.

[gyrene81]

gotta consider the source there Fruda...some people enjoy alternative history over actual history and Franz is one of those people.

[Fruda]

gotta consider the source there Fruda...some people enjoy alternative history over actual history and Franz is one of those people.

Oh, I certainly considered the source. All the more reason to be appalled at the fact that somebody could actually buy into that nonsense.

[Fruda]

It was certainly US supplies that enabled the the swift deployment of the Red Army during Bagration. It was back boned by massive numbers of US supplied trucks.

The trucks were "supplied" by the United States in the sense that they were manufactured in the Soviet Union under license... very much how one could say that the United States "supplied" the engines for the Lavochkin fighters because the Shvetsov radial engines were Wright Cyclones built under license (although modified).

The reality is, it's very interesting how all of the Allied powers worked together in such a way. Now, if only we could get every country to work together like that without having a war to drive it...

[gyrene81]

The reality is, it's very interesting how all of the Allied powers worked together in such a way. Now, if only we could get every country to work together like that without having a war to drive it...

that's been happening for a good while now. just look at the price of oil and the number of businesses owned by foreign interests, not to mention the number of people working for daimler/benz, toyota and mitsubishi.

oh and shouldn't forget the amount of junk import products that we find out are health hazards after years of being used domestically...

[Brooke]

He could mean saving the battle for the German side, not as in being the salvation of the people who lived there.  That's what I assumed in reading it, but who knows.

Stalin was a horrible man as well and killed a vast number of people, including many of his own people.

[Brooke]

that we find out are health hazards after years of being used domestically...

This is why I don't buy any food or anything touching food that is from China if I can help it.

[GScholz]

The trucks were "supplied" by the United States in the sense that they were manufactured in the Soviet Union under license...

And most of the trucks that drove into the Soviet Union in the Summer of 1941 had Ford or GM badges...

[Franz Von Werra]

Ok, the movie was I was saying earlier is "cross of iron" not "iron cross"

Ofcourse I meant save german armies in stalingrad when I said 'save stalingrad'
Why would you assume opposite? Best you two could find wrong was a gramatical 'ambiguity' to defeat my whole info? Lol
This is all from my phone btw. No internet to even play atm, kk.

Yes usa aid in Russia at winter of 1942/1943.
*USA sold Britain 50 destroyers a long time before dec 7th 1941, not sure date, but USA had been supplying.
Including sending USA flying tiger planes, with USA pilots, with China paint, landed in China before Pearharbor!, Japan surprise attack? Usa was helping allies way early and it is an act of war to supply a side.
*Dec 7 1941: was pearl harbor in pacific, and gemany stalled outside of moscow due to worst winter in years.
*By winter 1942/1943, USA's help was extreme to all agaisnt Germany, 400,000 trucks to russia? Get a date on this, SUPPLIES.
Add radio communicatiion wire, food.
*The movie "Enemy at the gate" about stalingrad:
Commander says something about 3 soldiers per gun, "when guy infront of you dies, next will pick it up.
Holywood or true? If lack of rifles with USA help, imagine without.
*WHY hitler went south thru ukraine - it was the 'breadbasket' on the way to oil of cacusses, and on the way to turkey, palistine, suez canal, egypt, to squeze allies between rommel... suez canal = englands's personal supply route. Everything to do with supplies.

An army marches on its stomach! And tanks roll on oil.

Loom up murmansk convoy, gemany fighting in north also...

[gyrene81]

This is why I don't buy any food or anything touching food that is from China if I can help it.

watch for drywall too...

http://www.caslab.com/Chinese-Drywall-Testing/?_kk=chinese%20drywall%20problem&_kt=f10024aa-ea64-4b2f-938f-aaa94f48aeb0&gclid=CImwg5HqqrgCFcFFMgod_HcAXA