Hetzer, JagdPanzer 4, JagdPanther but No StuG III?!

[moot]

It's their game?  And I'm saying this as someone who'd take the StuH 42 or just StuG III over almost anything else.

[chris3]

moin

i was saying that stugIII and StugIV do have the same uper hull so the halfwork is done for a stuG IV.

thay put the upperhull of StuGIII on PIV chasis after a bombraid did destroy alot of PIII chasis and the StuG IV was born.

cu christian

[moot]

They were confused because you suggested a "IV" StuG as an easy addition to the "IV" Pz we already have rather than HTC having to make a whole new "III" StuG and/or Pz, whereas they were arguing (besides the fact that a StuG III was historically more important in the first place) that a "III" Stug would open up more vehicles based on that "III" Pz chassis that we don't yet have. 

[bj229r]

I'd like to get a response from HTC about this, i'm still dying to know why the StuG wasn't a higher priority.

Absent W.O.T.'s would you have ever heard of the StuG?

[Lusche]

Absent W.O.T.'s would you have ever heard of the StuG?

I'd bet almost any amount of money that the StuG III, the most produced german armored fighting vehicle, is far more known than the Jagdpanzer 38 (t)

[SmokinLoon]

I'd bet almost any amount of money that the StuG III, the most produced german armored fighting vehicle, is far more known than the Jagdpanzer 38 (t)

Indeed.  Like I said, I'm surprised HTC went with the Hetzer vs the StuG III.  The different versions available to the Panzer III and/or StuG III chassis is far greater than the Hetzer.  With the StuG III, there are 3 gun options and the Hetzer has 1.  Ultimately, one would think HTC would look to the future when thinking of which chassis to bring in to the fray and the Panzer II chassis offers up at least six different options (three Pzr III's and three StuG III's for starters).

Either way, I'm glad we have the Hetzer.  I appreciate having it.   

[R 105]

I'd bet almost any amount of money that the StuG III, the most produced german armored fighting vehicle, is far more known than the Jagdpanzer 38 (t)

You are correct the Stug III is built on the Panzer MK III frame and was the most produced German armor vehicle of the war and it was very successful as a tank killer with the same 75mm that is on the Panzer IV. I would also like to see the Stug III but I am happy with the new assault guns we got. I like the jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer I took 5 hits from a T-34/85 the other day from the front and still landed kills. I have not really used the other one in the MA yet.  But yes on the Stug III because then we can also have the Panzer MKIII with the 50mm since the StugIII in built on the same frame.

[Tank-Ace]

I think they went with pure effectiveness for the first run of TDs.  Notice we got THE top performers in each perk price range. Not an SU-100, a Jagdpanther. Not an Su-85, a Jagdpanzer.

The Hetzer likely has the smallest profile, and and best visibility (it's hard to see, I mean) of any true TD we could add. On top of that, it's front armor is effectively 120mm thick.

[skorpx1]

I think they went with pure effectiveness for the first run of TDs.  Notice we got THE top performers in each perk price range. Not an SU-100, a Jagdpanther. Not an Su-85, a Jagdpanzer.

The Hetzer likely has the smallest profile, and and best visibility (it's hard to see, I mean) of any true TD we could add. On top of that, it's front armor is effectively 120mm thick.

According to multiple sources and even people from this board, the StuG was the most successful TD in the entire war.


If they wanted effective they'd make the StuG.

[Lusche]

According to multiple sources and even people from this board, the StuG was the most successful TD in the entire war.


If they wanted effective they'd make the StuG.

Efficiency in the real war and in here can and oftenw ill be, very different things. The combat environment is totally different and there are no economic factors to consider.

[SmokinLoon]

I think they went with pure effectiveness for the first run of TDs.  Notice we got THE top performers in each perk price range. Not an SU-100, a Jagdpanther. Not an Su-85, a Jagdpanzer.

The Hetzer likely has the smallest profile, and and best visibility (it's hard to see, I mean) of any true TD we could add. On top of that, it's front armor is effectively 120mm thick.

I bet the Su-100 is not far behind.  If these new Jagd tanks prove to be successful, I bet we'll see the Su-100 before long.  Same goes for the StuG III (and hopefully the Panzer III as well).

[Tank-Ace]

According to multiple sources and even people from this board, the StuG was the most successful TD in the entire war.


If they wanted effective they'd make the StuG.

Yes, but that doesn't reflect on the vehicle. Its doctrine, quality of enemies faced (soviets blew chunks tactically from *insert date* - mid 1943, and Soviets were the primary enemy faced by the StuG III), the situation in which its deployed, quality of the crewmen, quality of materials used to make it, logistics, etc.

You can make a direct comparison very rarely, as so little directly reflects the actual combat capability of any forces.

I bet the Su-100 is not far behind.  If these new Jagd tanks prove to be successful, I bet we'll see the Su-100 before long.  Same goes for the StuG III (and hopefully the Panzer III as well).

2nd best gun of the war (unless you count APCR for the US 90mm, or APDS for the 17lber), but its still outpreformed by the KwK 43 by about 25%. The point is that we didn't start out with one of the best, we started out with "THE" best.

Personally, I considered this update to be a test run of true TD's.

[SmokinLoon]

Yes, but that doesn't reflect on the vehicle. Its doctrine, quality of enemies faced (soviets blew chunks tactically from *insert date* - mid 1943, and Soviets were the primary enemy faced by the StuG III), the situation in which its deployed, quality of the crewmen, quality of materials used to make it, logistics, etc.
You can make a direct comparison very rarely, as so little directly reflects the actual combat capability of any forces.
2nd best gun of the war (unless you count APCR for the US 90mm, or APDS for the 17lber), but its still outpreformed by the KwK 43 by about 25%. The point is that we didn't start out with one of the best, we started out with "THE" best.
Personally, I considered this update to be a test run of true TD's.

Hmmm... "true" TD you say?  I know there are some that will debate with you the definition of that term.  After all, we've had the Firefly for a long time.  Oh, and the M18?  Also, don't forget one of the original TD's: the M3/75mm. 

I see where you're going with that and I do not disagree, adding in 2 of the 3 TD's that they did made sense.  They were amongst the best in their class (Jagdpanzer IV 70 and Jadgpanther).  The Hetzer I question for reasons already stated. 

I'm glad you mentioned the broader sense regarding the StuG III.  It was not directly a TD, it was used in multiple roles very freely (most notably an assault gun, i.e: direct fire support).  All that changed between roles were the types of ammo fired and what unit they were deployed next to.

[Rino]

I'd bet almost any amount of money that the StuG III, the most produced german armored fighting vehicle, is far more known than the Jagdpanzer 38 (t)

     Interesting quote from Wiki:

Survivors

Due to the large number produced, the Jagdpanzer 38(t) is probably the most abundant WWII German tank destroyer remaining today, though many survivors are actually post-war Swiss G-13 variants.

     I do know over on this side of the Atlantic, there are several 38ts used by reenactors.  In fact, I
used to work with a crewmember on one of the Swiss ones.  I'll see if I can dig through my junk and
find a photo.

[Rino]

     Found em and did some quick scans..have plenty more.







     The Hetzer is Swiss and the Hanomags are Czech <they had to cut the roofs off the 251s
to make them look German>  I think these are from Indiantown Gap, PA, but don't quote me