Author Topic: Spits in a dive  (Read 3713 times)

Offline leitwolf

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Re: Spits in a dive
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2013, 07:52:43 PM »
V2 in the last part of its flight profile did :old: :neener:
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 07:54:16 PM by leitwolf »
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Spits in a dive
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2013, 08:36:21 PM »
True, but I'd rather fly a Spitfire given the choice... ;)
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Spits in a dive
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2013, 01:02:20 AM »
Quote
Basic physics won't cover it, but it will start to give you the fundamentals to understand more about aerodynamics

It's a physics course tailored for Aerospace engineers, so it might get into fluid mechanics pretty well. But not sure.

And thank you.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline Brooke

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Re: Spits in a dive
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2013, 02:41:11 AM »
It's a physics course tailored for Aerospace engineers, so it might get into fluid mechanics pretty well. But not sure.

And thank you.

That's a good foundation, but I don't think it would get into the meat of aerodynamics, aircraft modeling, stability and control, etc.  Those topics can fill up many more courses and can stretch throughout BSE and MS coursework.

Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Spits in a dive
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2013, 02:48:08 AM »
Yeah, ASU is said to have a few fairly brutal courses for juniors and seniors. At least within my discipline.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline GScholz

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Re: Spits in a dive
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2013, 04:17:58 AM »
Real quick and dirty: Compressibility and localized supersonic airflow affected different aircraft differently; shock waves form deflecting the air away from the wing and fuselage surface, disrupting the normal flow of air over the wings and control surfaces. The turbulent air flow can cause the control surfaces to vibrate or even oscillate between its extremes of deflection like the ailerons on the P-47 and 109. However, the important fact is that since conventional ailerons and elevators work by changing the curvature of the whole airfoil (wing) they don’t work when the airflow is separated and turbulent. For all intents and purposes the wing is stalled behind the region where the shock impinges on the surface of the wing. You can move the control surfaces to their maximum deflection and they will do nothing. On some planes the controls become lighter after the wing airflow enters compressibility, still the controls remain ineffective. The turbulent air flow over the wing also incurs an aerodynamic stall and abrupt loss of lift, which leads to the aircraft diving steeper without the pilot being able to do anything about it. This is often refereed to as "Mach tuck".

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Offline Zacherof

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Re: Spits in a dive
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2013, 04:28:24 AM »
It's almost impossible to lawn dart a spit from 14k :old:
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Offline Brooke

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Re: Spits in a dive
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2013, 11:43:35 AM »
A nice comment on P-38's and compressibility:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J0lEHyKInw

Offline Zacherof

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Re: Spits in a dive
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2013, 12:40:43 PM »
It's almost impossible to lawn dart a spit from 40k :old:
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Offline save

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Re: Spits in a dive
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2013, 12:46:34 PM »

Well they have to fix the A8 in AH then...

quote author=GScholz link=topic=351707.msg4651089#msg4651089 date=1375055981]
The Spitfire was unmatched in dive speed in WWII.
[/quote]
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Spits in a dive
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2013, 01:06:05 PM »
Well they have to fix the A8 in AH then...

quote author=GScholz link=topic=351707.msg4651089#msg4651089 date=1375055981]
The Spitfire was unmatched in dive speed in WWII.


Sorry, how does that follow?
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Offline Widewing

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Re: Spits in a dive
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2013, 06:50:26 PM »
I think that some point to the Spitfire's max dive speed as being a result of low drag. The Spitfire had a significantly higher drag coefficient than the P-51. Its wing, however, had an excellent low chord to thickness ratio, delaying the onset of compressibility. On the same horsepower, the P-51B was more than 30 mph faster than the Spitfire IX.

A Spitfire PR recorded Mach .91 in a dive. However, that would not have been possible, except that the prop shaft failed and the propeller came off. Indeed, a major limiting factor in prop driven aircraft speed is t[/img]he propeller itself. Generally speaking, at very high speeds, it's little more than a circular speed brake. The issue for Spits in combat was not maximum velocity, but the rather leisurely dive acceleration rate (in comparison to the P-47 and Mustang).



Test pilot Herb Fisher more than a hundred test dives in a P-47D, testing standard and high mach propellers. His P-47 would reach a terminal velocity of Mach .81 with the standard Curtiss-Wright prop. Using the lower drag designs, he could manage Mach .83. Ultimately, that was terminal velocity for the P-47. Critical Mach was .73, whereupon a shockwave would begin to form. Light buffeting would begin at Mach .71 and full boogie shake at critical mach.

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Offline save

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Re: Spits in a dive
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2013, 07:08:50 PM »
A8 can fly 620mph in a dive and pull-up keeping its parts, never ever seen a spit do that with elevators intact in AH. if statement above is true, A8 needs to lower its max dive speed.

Sorry, how does that follow?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 07:10:48 PM by save »
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Spits in a dive
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2013, 07:49:50 PM »
A8 can fly 620mph in a dive and pull-up keeping its parts, never ever seen a spit do that with elevators intact in AH. if statement above is true, A8 needs to lower its max dive speed.


Or Spits need their elevators strengthened...
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Spits in a dive
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2013, 11:22:35 PM »
A8 can fly 620mph in a dive and pull-up keeping its parts, never ever seen a spit do that with elevators intact in AH. if statement above is true, A8 needs to lower its max dive speed.


Yes.  I also fly the A8 quite a bit in-game and 600 in a dive's easy.  A Spit can come close with proper trimming but it won't get there without shedding a wing so if Spits were the fastest divers IRL then something needs to be remodeled.  I've never lost an elevator due to speed (at least in a Spit... I've lost them in Ki-84's and A-20's and a few others on more than a few occasions)

Or Spits need their elevators strengthened...

The elevators are very responsive at every speed but are part of the problem in that they allow you to shed wings easily.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 11:28:23 PM by BaldEagl »
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