Author Topic: P-40c = Complete Air Superiority Fighter!  (Read 2108 times)

Offline Slade

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1848
Re: P-40c = Complete Air Superiority Fighter!
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2013, 04:40:18 PM »
Quote
P-40C is an ez mode crutch ride.  There, I said it.

Oh I agree!

It can out climb, out accelerate anything in the sky.  It is a monster!  And those guns are like BAZOOKAs baby!  I just set my convergence to 1k and everything dies automatically.  GREAT viz on 6 view.  Carries unlimited ords too!
-- Flying as X15 --

Offline Brooke

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15712
      • http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/
Re: P-40c = Complete Air Superiority Fighter!
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2013, 04:49:58 PM »
It can out climb, out accelerate anything in the sky.  It is a monster!  And those guns are like BAZOOKAs baby!  I just set my convergence to 1k and everything dies automatically.  GREAT viz on 6 view.  Carries unlimited ords too!

You forgot to mention the awesome jato packs -- punch it, and even the Me 163 is left behind coughing in your smoke. 

The P-40C's motto?  "Can't touch this!"  Or "The P-40C -- biggest pants in the hangar!"



Offline Babalonian

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5817
      • Pigs on the Wing
Re: P-40c = Complete Air Superiority Fighter!
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2013, 04:56:47 PM »
The biggest reason I don't fly the P-40 more is climb rate.  It takes 50% longer to get to alt compared to a lot of other planes.

I probably will fly more of it at some point, though.  It's one of the planes I've flown the least.

This, with exception to it's drawn out climbs, the plane is an excellent ride.
-Babalon
"Let's light 'em up and see how they smoke."
POTW IIw Oink! - http://www.PigsOnTheWing.org

Wow, you guys need help.

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23048
Re: P-40c = Complete Air Superiority Fighter!
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2013, 05:03:01 PM »
Personally I think the P-40C sucks, which means those that fly it get the biggest bragging rights of all in my opinion.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Puma44

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6799
Re: P-40c = Complete Air Superiority Fighter!
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2013, 12:38:10 AM »
Does anyone know what those guy wires from the rudder to the wing tips are? Support ,  antennas?

Thanks,

~S~ Buck
Might be an NDB type antenna. 



All gave some, Some gave all

Offline Widewing

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8801
Re: P-40c = Complete Air Superiority Fighter!
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2013, 09:44:18 AM »
Does anyone know what those guy wires from the rudder to the wing tips are? Support ,  antennas?

Thanks,

~S~ Buck

HF Radio Antenna. Removed from all USAAF fighter aircraft in the ETO and MTO. Retained in the SWPA and PTO. The antenna was removed because the HF radios not used or generally needed. Typically, the fighters in the ETO and MTO relied on the SCR-522-A VHF radio, or the AN/ARC-3 that had a range of between 150 and 200 miles depending upon altitude and conditions. Navy fighters typically were equipped with HF and VHF radios. SWPA P-38s also retained HF capability due the long distances flown over water. In the ETO, radio relay aircraft were often employed.
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Zacherof

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3996
Re: P-40c = Complete Air Superiority Fighter!
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2013, 03:15:53 PM »
Wonder why they didn't go ahead and produce the xp-40Q
420mph isn't bad at all and considerablly faster than other variants not to mention fast enough for contemporary fighters of the time
« Last Edit: August 03, 2013, 03:20:59 PM by Zacherof »
In game name Xacherof
USN Sea Bee
**ELITE**
I am a meat popsicle

Offline ink

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11274
Re: P-40c = Complete Air Superiority Fighter!
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2013, 05:00:53 PM »
Personally I think the P-40C sucks, which means those that fly it get the biggest bragging rights of all in my opinion.

not when they fly in a gang of green...... :aok

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23048
Re: P-40c = Complete Air Superiority Fighter!
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2013, 05:06:49 PM »
Wonder why they didn't go ahead and produce the xp-40Q
420mph isn't bad at all and considerablly faster than other variants not to mention fast enough for contemporary fighters of the time

They didn't need it and it wasn't as capable as existing airframes that weren't being pushed to the end of their development capability.

not when they fly in a gang of green...... :aok
Behavior obviously modifies it, but all things being equal, the P-40C earns one the biggest bragging rights, in my opinion.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline ink

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11274
Re: P-40c = Complete Air Superiority Fighter!
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2013, 05:57:43 PM »
They didn't need it and it wasn't as capable as existing airframes that weren't being pushed to the end of their development capability.
Behavior obviously modifies it, but all things being equal, the P-40C earns one the biggest bragging rights, in my opinion.

Behavior is everything in my eyes...and I have only seen a couple guys that fly those birds alone....

wish I could remember the guys name I fought in my Hurri2 days.....he was all alone and coming into a base I was rolling from...this was before the updated P40's...he flew it magnificently...I really don't even remember who won..I just remember the fight.... and That he was alone in a P40........ that guy deserves major Kudos.....

NO ONE in the MA today flies the P40s like that. 

Offline bortas1

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1228
Re: P-40c = Complete Air Superiority Fighter!
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2013, 09:12:38 PM »
 :salute I have always like the p40. c model with the 50s in the nose. just wish I could fly better and learn how to use it. i :salute those who can. I always fly like I belong to f troop.

Offline Widewing

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8801
Re: P-40c = Complete Air Superiority Fighter!
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2013, 11:11:38 AM »
Wonder why they didn't go ahead and produce the xp-40Q
420mph isn't bad at all and considerablly faster than other variants not to mention fast enough for contemporary fighters of the time

Karnak provided a good general reason for the XP-40Q not getting a contract.

There were other reasons as well.

By late 1943, the USAAF had come to the conclusion that range was now a very high priority. This was not only observed in the ETO and MTO, but it was even more important in the SWPA theater. There, when worn out P-38F and G models were retired, they were replaced by razorback versions of the P-47D. At once, the number of kills dwindled down to next to nothing. It wasn't that the Jug wasn't superior to the Japanese, it was because the P-47 lacked the range to reach many areas of Japanese air ops. The 49th FG experienced this more than any other, as some squadrons were still flying P-40s too. Before the Mustang showed up late in the war, the P-38 was THE fighter to have in the SWPA. Eventually, enough P-38s were delivered, but some were hand-me-downs.

Curtiss had been in a muddle for years, even prior to WWII. The P-40 was their last fighter accepted by the USAAF. By 1941, it was marginal. By 1943 it was clearly obsolete. Updates were pedestrian, and it was obvious that the airframe was not capable of much more speed, regardless of what engine was employed. It was very draggy, and had limited capacity for fuel. Curtiss had thrown a ton of money down the hole designated as the proposed replacements for the P-40. Early on, the XP-46 proved to be no faster than the P-40. The USAAF saw no reason to order it.

Next, Curtiss wasted more time, talent and money on the XP-53 proposal. It was designed with a long span laminar flow wing, but was to be powered by the failed Continental XIV-1430-3 engine. The USAAF didn't want to waste any time with the Continental and ordered Curtiss to re-design for the Packard built Merlin (that ended up in the P-40F). This new design was designated as the XP-60. Curtiss then went through no less than six major iterations of the XP-60. Donovan Berlin's design team could not think outside of their small box, and program management was horrendous. Finally, the XP-60E was delivered for evaluation and performed sub-standard, and still had too many unresolved problems. Moreover, now fitted with the gas guzzling P&W R-2800, its range was reduced to half that of the P-40N. The final version, the good looking YP-60E, was highly maneuverable, and had an outstanding rate of climb. It would have been a very good interceptor and air superiority fighter, but it's range was a mere 300 miles on internal fuel. Curtiss, yet again, had completely misunderstood what the AAF wanted and needed. The program was cancelled. Curtiss, it seems, was utterly incapable of adapting to the changing needs of their customers and fast evolving aviation technology.

Combine this with the failed XP-62 program, and the God-awful XF14C design for the Navy. Things were looking dismal for Curtiss Wright. Curtiss, which apparently could not design or develop a competitive fighter was offered a contract to build P-47s. Once again, management failed badly. There were continuous production issues with the P-47. Quality control was terrible and delivery was never close to being on time. Curtiss was beginning to look like Brewster, but on a grander scale. The P-47 contract was cancelled and all of the P-47Gs built were individually sorted and repaired as required. All were retained in the States and issued to training squadrons. Curtiss was pretty much done as a builder of fighters for the military.

When the XP-40Q was more or less ready for evaluation by the AAF at Eglin, Germany was just four months from surrendering. Performance was generally competitive with existing fighters already in the field. However, newer fighters being built or in testing offered a far higher benchmark. This and the fact that the XP-40Q offered no improvement in range over the P-40, the fighter was superfluous and unwanted. The USAAF also had grave doubts that Curtiss could meet any reasonable timetable for production and delivery. One AAF test pilot stated his thoughts simply... "It's a nice little fighter, but it's two years too late for our current needs".

Curtiss was a company managed by people who no longer had any strategic vision. Their inability to manage their many fighter programs compounded their inability to anticipate the future needs of the USAAF. Even though the Curtiss Helldiver did replace the SBD in Navy service, no Navy aircraft was more hated for it's poor handling. Its development was typical of Curtiss, years of teething issues and bad management. Beyond the P-40 series and the miserable SB2C, the only other truly successful military aircraft program was the excellent C-46 transport.

With the cancelling of the XF-87 contract in 1948 (Curtiss Wright's last try to be a builder of fighters), Curtiss Wright was officially out of the airplane business, managed into the ground by poor leadership and no genuine understanding of how military aviation had evolved.
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Brooke

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15712
      • http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/
Re: P-40c = Complete Air Superiority Fighter!
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2013, 11:31:34 AM »
Thanks for the history, Widewing.

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23048
Re: P-40c = Complete Air Superiority Fighter!
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2013, 11:45:34 AM »
That was an interesting read.

Thank you, Widewing.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Megalodon

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2272
Re: P-40c = Complete Air Superiority Fighter!
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2013, 12:21:50 PM »
Those weren't the captured P-40s that saw combat with the IJAAF, those are the captured P-40s that were being evaluated and you can also see a captured B-17 towards the end of the line.  The IJAAF Burma P-40s looked like this profile.

(Image removed from quote.)

ack-ack


"Unlike the allies, the Japanese put their captured allied aircraft to operational use in
combat. In 1943, the Japanese had a small operational combat unit in Burma equipped with the
P-40E's that they had captured in the Philippines and Java. After the fall of Burma, Malaya,
Netherlands East Indies (NEI), and the Philippines, all types of Allied aircraft were employed by
the Japanese in combat. In one instance they used the P-40's with Japanese markings to defend
Rangoon. However, their use resulted in confusion. They were scrambled to intercept enemy
bombers, which turned out to be Japanese bombers, and in the uncertainty one of the bombers
was shot down!"



 :cheers:
Okay..Add 2 Country's at once, Australia and France next plane update Add ...CAC Boomerang and the Dewoitine D.520