P-61 Black Widow, Night Fighter

[Widewing]

It would be an allied 410 - not fast enough, poor maneuverability, but just a huge pile of guns.
No reason not to add it, but I'd place it WAY down in the priority list. Almost every WWII AC I can think off would be more important than this.

Poor maneuverability? Not hardly. Considering its size, it was a very agile airplane. Much better turn radius than a P-38, reported to better than an F6F. Plus, it had very effective, nearly full span flaps. Roll rate was excellent at high speed due to using spoilers as well as ailerons. Climb was not great, and it lacked speed compared to late war fighters. It was, however, capable of lifting a great deal of ordnance. Due to a buffet issue, some were built without the remotely operated turret. This was later resolved and the turret returned. With four 20 mm cannon, it was exceptionally lethal. The power turret was operated by a gunner, but could be slewed to face forward by the pilot. This would provide greater firepower than the Mosquito.

In the game, it would largely replace the A-20 as a tank killer, and would be far more formidable than the A-20 air to air. It would also be an effective bomber killer. I would ask for the mid 1944 P-61B.

[Charge]

It has wing area twice that of 410 and 2x2250 HP where 410 has 2x1750HP. 410 max weight is 10t and P-61 is 16t.

It would certainly be a better slow speed turner but is seems that the huge wing area had its cost:

"The first P-61 engagement in the European Theater occurred on July 15 when a P-61 piloted by Lt. Herman Ernst was directed to intercept a V-1 "Buzz Bomb." Diving from above and behind to match the V-1's 350 mph (560 km/h) speed, the P-61's plastic rear cone imploded under the pressure and the attack was aborted."

"On yet another occasion, a 422nd P-61 spotted a Messerschmitt Me 410 Hornisse flying at tree top level but, as they dove on it, the "Hornet" sped away and the P-61 was unable to catch it."

I don't know what is tree top level in this case but I find it curious that a 410 flying at tree top level sped away from a plane that could catch low V1s at 350mph. Or maybe it was actually a Mossie they tried to bounce?

-C+

[Karnak]

Me410 is faster than the P-61A and B at best altitude so the fact that the P-61A/B did 366mph at ~20,000 doesn't mean it is faster than the Me410 at seal level either.

[Wmaker]

"On yet another occasion, a 422nd P-61 spotted a Messerschmitt Me 410 Hornisse flying at tree top level but, as they dove on it, the "Hornet" sped away and the P-61 was unable to catch it."

Lt Van Neiswender from 425th had a similar experience...


(Source: P-61 Black Widow Units of World War 2)

[Wmaker]

Me410 is faster than the P-61A and B at best altitude so the fact that the P-61A/B did 366mph at ~20,000 doesn't mean it is faster than the Me410 at seal level either.

Not exactly sure what you are saying here but if an aircraft A is faster than aircraft B at altitude x, the aircraft B can still be faster than aircraft A at altitude y. This is true especially with mechanically supercharged piston engined aircraft.

In the game, it would largely replace the A-20 as a tank killer,

I wouldn't be completely sure about that since A-20 can carry twice the number of bombs when talking about normal load outs.

[Karnak]

Not exactly sure what you are saying here but if an aircraft A is faster than aircraft B at altitude x, the aircraft B can still be faster than aircraft A at altitude y. This is true especially with mechanically supercharged piston engined aircraft.

Absolutely.  I am simply saying that it does not have to have been a misidentified Mosquito, the Me410 may well be faster than the P-61 as well.

[Wmaker]

Absolutely.  I am simply saying that it does not have to have been a misidentified Mosquito, the Me410 may well be faster than the P-61 as well.

Ahh, rgr, Thanks.

Per AHT's data, P-61 would do ~336mph at 5000ft (that is where the curve ends) with WEP. R-2800-65 has a power curve on WEP setting where the power at sea level is 2250hp but drops quickly to ~2050hp at ~5000ft. Based on the shape of the speed curve and the power curve, I'd say the speed on the deck was ~342mph with WEP on the aircraft which was tested.

Me410 does ~328mph on the deck with WEP in AH. I haven't seen any data which shows faster speeds for the Me410 myself and therefore have no problems with the speeds of the ME410 in AH. However, based on everything I've read, I'm quite sure that such data does exist somewhere.

[leitwolf]

Sod all this radar gubbins, gimme the bloody plane!

[Slash27]

I wouldn't be completely sure about that since A-20 can carry twice the number of bombs when talking about normal load outs.

Yes, but it's a sexy beast. The A-20 is just cute.

[No9Squadron]

In the game, it would largely replace the A-20 as a tank killer, and would be far more formidable than the A-20 air to air. It would also be an effective bomber killer. I would ask for the mid 1944 P-61B.

Why didn't it replace the A20 in real life then, A20 was still going in Vietnam... oh wait the P-61 too?

[Oldman731]

Why didn't it replace the A20 in real life then, A20 was still going in Vietnam... oh wait the P-61 too?

You're thinking of the A26, which did replace the A20 near the end of WWII, served in the Korean war and in very limited numbers in the Nam.

- oldman

[earl1937]

You're thinking of the A26, which did replace the A20 near the end of WWII, served in the Korean war and in very limited numbers in the Nam.

- oldman

The A-26 was replaced with the B-26C and that was what was used in Vietnam and most of them were transferred to the South Vietnam Air Force before the end of the war! Was a great a/c and what I was training on when I got the opportunity to go to  B-29 training. Have about 45 hours in it. Very easy to fly, good climb rate with ords and was fast enough to keep you out of trouble in a combat zone.

[Saxman]

The A-26 was replaced with the B-26C

Uh... the B-26C WAS an A-26, just under a different designation.

[Oldman731]

The A-26 was replaced with the B-26C

Same plane, Earl, the USAF just renamed it from A26 to B26 sometime around 1948.

Your experience seems to match my college professor's, who flew them in the ETO during WWII and used to light up as he described the plane ("it was a real hot ship!" he'd say).  Oddly enough, they weren't liked in the Pacific.

- oldman

[earl1937]

Same plane, Earl, the USAF just renamed it from A26 to B26 sometime around 1948.

Your experience seems to match my college professor's, who flew them in the ETO during WWII and used to light up as he described the plane ("it was a real hot ship!" he'd say).  Oddly enough, they weren't liked in the Pacific.

- oldman

You are right guys to an extent! The B-26C's used in Vietnam, and flown from Thailand, was predesignated the A-26, because the Thail's would not allow bombers to fly from their bases.
The single seat B-26C's, crew of three, pilot, flight engineer and navigator-bomberdear was actually a little different in that it had a "beefed" up rear spar, because of Air to Ground attacks and hi "G" loads on pull outs, as most of those were in Thailand.
Either way, a helluva of an airplane and was fun to fly!