Introduce a soft flak vehicle and perk the flakpanzers.

[SirNuke]

Anyone remembers that german vehicule's name with 20mms on a lightly armored chassis?

[asterix]

Some of the discussion is here:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,351112.0.html
I would like to see more anti aircraft stuff myself especially something with a longer reach, maybe:
Cannone da 90/53: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannone_da_90/53
Or vehicle mounted Bofors 40mm gun.

[lyric1]

Anyone remembers that german vehicule's name with 20mms on a lightly armored chassis?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/70231833/050-Flakpanzer-38-t

http://www.scribd.com/doc/97292317/051-Waffen-Arsenal-Flak-Auf-Dem-Gefechtsfeld

http://www.scribd.com/doc/113790510/1982-Gepard-The-History-of-German-Anti-Aircraft-Tanks

[save]

Wirbies should be given away by shooting, showing  icon until they move away

[SirNuke]

Wirbies should be given away by shooting, showing  icon until they move away

I made another wish for that, I feel too that the balance gv/planes is off. GVs have it easy nowadays.

[save]

yep got shot up by a wirbie I could not see before I was already shot up yesterday, been chasing a rabbit 51 low.

That could be realistic, but IRL he would have paid the price giving away his position, either he has to move or get pounded.

In here he can wait for next low guy coming in unaware.

Also to have a own field perimeter warning system showing what arc within 45 degree where enemies are at.
This effectively stop parked wirbies at your field end when you take off, you have no chance seeing him before its too late since you only know field is flashing.

[Karnak]

yep got shot up by a wirbie I could not see before I was already shot up yesterday, been chasing a rabbit 51 low.

That could be realistic,

The unrealistic thing was for the P-51 driver to know exactly where to run to when you were on his tail.  There is no reason that friendly GVs should be visible at long range.  People say "They could communicate on radio." which isn't true due to the limited channels, but more importantly we can also communicate using vox so let the Wirbie try to talk the P-51 over.

[hammer]

... IRL he would have paid the price giving away his position, either he has to move or get pounded.

His position was given away. The stream of tracers rising from his position gives it away exactly as it would in real life. Knowing where on the ground friendly FPs are is the thing that needs to be fixed. FPs were built to protect other GVs from air attack; not protect planes from other planes.

Regards,

Hammer

[SmokinLoon]

The unrealistic thing was for the P-51 driver to know exactly where to run to when you were on his tail.  There is no reason that friendly GVs should be visible at long range.  People say "They could communicate on radio." which isn't true due to the limited channels, but more importantly we can also communicate using vox so let the Wirbie try to talk the P-51 over.

FO's were present all over the ETO front, at least for the allies.  The Germans used them as well but to a lesser degree.  Also, when pilots upped they had been briefed as to what units were where, maybe not to a specific location but the pilots knew that X town was occupied by Y unit.  Allied pilots were not completely blind.

I could go either way on the allied gv icon, on one hand I like the fog of war but on the other hand so many people do not have the basics of communication down (bearings, O'Clock positions, what is and is not important info to relay, etc). 

[save]

"His position was given away. The stream of tracers rising from his position gives it away exactly as it would in real life. Knowing where on the ground friendly FPs are is the thing that needs to be fixed. FPs were built to protect other GVs from air attack; not protect planes from other planes"

Above statement is only true if spotting plane is close range from the shooting wirby, and in open ground.

It's darn hard to find them concealed in woods,and it should be hard to find them, likewise it should be very hard for Wirby to find out if a plane is friendly or enemy at 3k-6k range,here is is presented with data from a ranging computer, even telling what plane it is.

[hammer]

"His position was given away. The stream of tracers rising from his position gives it away exactly as it would in real life. Knowing where on the ground friendly FPs are is the thing that needs to be fixed. FPs were built to protect other GVs from air attack; not protect planes from other planes"

Above statement is only true if spotting plane is close range from the shooting wirby, and in open ground.

As it was in real life. If you see tracers coming from a clump of trees, you know there is something in the clump of trees, not a pinpoint location.

It's darn hard to find them concealed in woods,and it should be hard to find them...

This seems counter to your original argument, but I agree!

... likewise it should be very hard for Wirby to find out if a plane is friendly or enemy at 3k-6k range...

Agreed. There were lots of instances to pilots going down to friendly ground fire. I'm not sure, though, there would be a way to model that in the MA environment without making all AA guns useless.

Regards,

Hammer

[Karnak]

FO's were present all over the ETO front, at least for the allies.  The Germans used them as well but to a lesser degree.  Also, when pilots upped they had been briefed as to what units were where, maybe not to a specific location but the pilots knew that X town was occupied by Y unit.  Allied pilots were not completely blind.

I could go either way on the allied gv icon, on one hand I like the fog of war but on the other hand so many people do not have the basics of communication down (bearings, O'Clock positions, what is and is not important info to relay, etc). 

It is absurd to think that provided anything like the pinpoint situational awareness of where the AA units were that we have here.  Even today we don't have that level of information for our pilots, hence dropping bombs on Canadian special forces and shooting down Blackhawk helicopters.  I know that P-47s and Typhoons involved in ground support had their radios tuned to communicate with ground forces.  I am much more skeptical that a random P-51 or Spitfire that was tasked with air-to-air would have that option though.  Even so, we have radio communication with our ground forces in AH and if they want to coordinate using it, fine.  I just don't think a P-51 should be able to come out of a swirling dogfight and know the exact position a friendly AA vehicle is at 5500 yards away in non-descript terrain while the guy he just lost the swirling dogfight to won't know until he gets a face full of 20mm rounds.

You can say "Just don't chase runners" but that makes the runner aircraft even more favored.  I don't want to feel like I have to fly La-7s just to ensure P-51Ds and Fw190D-9s don't have a get out of jail free card.

[RngFndr]

+1 for more FLAK platforms.. Like something in between the M16 and Flaks..
Like maybe a "SturmFlak", or something with a Single or Twin 20mm on a 1/2track chassis??

+1 for a Mobile Bofors Vehicle..
I believe the Brits had a Single Bofors on the Crusader Chassis.. (nice to have the Crusader in game too)
And the USA had a Tracked Twin Bofors mount too, cant remember which chassis tho. (Pre M42 Duster)
But if ya wanna perk the Wirb/Osti, then a Bofors equipped vehicle would need God Perks..

As far Dragging a Pursuer over a fellow countryman in Wirby??? LOL, It's ALWAYS been that way..
Lost track of how many times I was A20, bingo ord, damaged with one engine smokin etc...
Playing bait for my buddies in Flakpanzers.. Works too!

COME GET IT SUCKERS!
 

[Karnak]

As far Dragging a Pursuer over a fellow countryman in Wirby??? LOL, It's ALWAYS been that way.

Sure, but it used to be that you knew it was happening and could make an informed choice to risk it or break off the pursuit, but with the change to enemy GV icons that is no longer true.

[RngFndr]

Sure, but it used to be that you knew it was happening and could make an informed choice to risk it or break off the pursuit, but with the change to enemy GV icons that is no longer true.

I agreed with the GV Icon range change.. Well, in real life you'd have to make the call too.. Chase him into an enemy infested area where (in reality) you would just assume, that everything that could shoot would be blasting at you from every angle.. Or don't!

It was hazardous bizz gettin down near the trees over known Flak areas.. But this is a game, so the risk of not gettin back to drinks at the O club, and your warm bed, are somewhat less.. Makes people bolder than they normally would be..