Introduce a soft flak vehicle and perk the flakpanzers.

[SirNuke]

of course the plane with ord and that took the time to climb will win against a gv, if it can spot it. (but the t34 flaks makes you wonder at times :)

but did the gv do to get there? just click the spawn button.

but if a flak is close it will kill the plane in total impunity, without even being spotted.

The time spent and the risks took is not in the plane's favor, thats why the bish horde via gvs anytime they can, and nothing can't them with the current balance.

[lyric1]

 (but the t34 flaks makes you wonder at times :)

About time we got this in the game.









 

[SirNuke]

Please no, they aim well enough with a 76mm gun

[lyric1]

Please no, they aim well enough with a 76mm gun

True.
Always has bothered me that the same tanker can't hit you with a Wirbel or Osti.
Main gun on a tank though

[Tank-Ace]

Half the aircraft view range, simply because a friendly aircraft has a better idea where AA is than the enemy plane.

Alter nothing in terms of aircraft's difficulties in detecting them. Flacks are actually mildly effective against enemies who aren't being morons, ever since the change.

I'd even go so far as to say engine on/off should have no effect on icon range. Movement, firing or not, and proximity to cover only.

Not firing, under cover, and stationary should not generate an icon at any distance at speeds greater than, say 150mph. 200m range maximum.

Firing main gun should increase view range by 200m only (you have only a fraction of a second in which anything other than a general bearing is revealed), and only for a few seconds.

Automatic weapons fire increases view range by 500m for 10 seconds, regardless of other factors.

[Tilt]

Ostwinds and Wirblewinds were uncommon beasts in WW2 compared to towed flak s. (never left Germany IIRC)

We already have the 37mm ggun modelled and it could be made to be towed behind either an M3 or a Sd.Kfz 251 to represent the various 37mm AAguns in use by Germany, Russia and the US.

A short delay for deployment and there is a soft gun beside the carrier vehicle.

The Sk.Kfz 251/ 21 with triple 20mm could also be added.

I would then prefer that AA guns be looked at separately re their perk values...... Both the panzer mounted variants getting perked once the more common variants above were available.

As stated elsewhere i would prefer to make icon range the same for freindly as it is now for enemy. The only thing I would have different would be to make it inversely proportional to aircraft speed..... Such that the slower you fly the easier it is to find gv's. Then if you can fly as slow as a Storch you see as well as a Storch.

[Karnak]

Half the aircraft view range, simply because a friendly aircraft has a better idea where AA is than the enemy plane.

I disagree.  More than enough carrots have been handed tot he GVers.  They complained about aircraft interfering in GV fights and changes were made, but now that we have a new balance and the shoe is on the other foot the GVers are now arguing to maintain their ability to interfere with aircraft fights and get relatively free kills.

Same view distance for friendly and enemy GVs following the same rules as we currently have for enemy GVs.

Look at the positives GVers, bombing tanks would be more dangerous as you'd need to make sure it was an enemy GV or risk killshooting yourself.  Being more dangerous, it would likely become rarer.

[thrila]

As someone who is rather fond of killing gv's, in my opinion wirblwinds are highly effective making light work of most planes. In the hurri2d i have to fly within the effective guns range to visually identify it and routinely take hits doing so. The only thing i think which isn't in their favour is f3 mode in bombers which makes it easier to bomb gv's, i think may be the reasons the a20 is used so frequently to kill gv's.

[SirNuke]

As a side note you can't killshoot yourself by bombing friendly gvs

[Tilt]

As a side note you can't killshoot yourself by bombing friendly gvs

Then my wish would be that this is enabled...... And visa versa.

[waystin2]

The WirbelGawd enjoys this thread.

[Tank-Ace]

As someone who is rather fond of killing gv's, in my opinion wirblwinds are highly effective making light work of most planes. In the hurri2d i have to fly within the effective guns range to visually identify it and routinely take hits doing so. The only thing i think which isn't in their favour is f3 mode in bombers which makes it easier to bomb gv's, i think may be the reasons the a20 is used so frequently to kill gv's.

And, you know... The 225mph speed advantage you have. And the fact that you can maneuver freely in 3 dimensions. And that you can grab ordnance to guarantee they die.

Yeah, if you take the derp planes, you will be killed a few times. Expect it, because that's as it should be. But those GV's have numerous aircraft after them, and often times die when you don't see them die. It's not at all like they're invincible.

Besides that, what exactly do you propose be done? Change the view range back heavily in favor of the aircraft, so you can slaughter tanks more easily? I'm still going to plug you with my ostwind if you're dumb enough to fly a straight line within 3.5k of me.



Karnak, aircraft still interfere with GV fights, even if it's not quite so bad now. Having things go the other way a little bit is not a bad thing, since aircraft hold all the cards, if the player makes even the slightest effort to use them. The GVers shouldn't be punished for the ineptitude and laziness of some of the would be bomb tards.

[RotBaron]

Seems like a lot of you have a birdseye perspective about this issue but not a groundhogs.

The odds are great of you being killed by another gv when you spawn into a town where the distance between eny/friendly spawn is anything worth mentioning. Conversely, a fair amount of time when I do this, I'm not even 1/3 the way to the town yet and there will be an A20 or a N1K up getting ready to bomb. Other days when they're feeling a little more risky they'll do it in p38s, stukas or IL2s. Thus we have Wirblewinds, and thank HT for that very much.

Go spawn into the nearest enemy town where there isn't a gv fight already established, let me know how it goes...

[TDeacon]

This is a ridiculous comment.  I tell you what; how about you engage in a duel.  Your opponent takes a P51 with 2 1000 pounders (costs no perk points) and you take a Tiger II (costs 100 perk points).  Let's see who wins...

MH

That isn't a very accurate representation of the MA combat environment.

I am responding his claim that the "balance" between GVs and AC favors GVs, which is clearly not the case.  I assume his post is motivated by his perception that it is harder to kill GVs when there are Wirbles around, which is true.  However, he is not looking at things from the GV perspective.  The "duel" proposal is an attempt to get him to see how one-sided the AC/GV interaction actually is.  Not only does the Tiger II player die every time, but loses massive perks in addition.  Imagine how you would feel if you had UFOs blasting your 262 from low earth orbit, with nothing you could do about it.  Same thing. 

MH

[Karnak]

And, you know... The 225mph speed advantage you have. And the fact that you can maneuver freely in 3 dimensions. And that you can grab ordnance to guarantee they die.

Yeah, if you take the derp planes, you will be killed a few times. Expect it, because that's as it should be. But those GV's have numerous aircraft after them, and often times die when you don't see them die. It's not at all like they're invincible.

Besides that, what exactly do you propose be done? Change the view range back heavily in favor of the aircraft, so you can slaughter tanks more easily? I'm still going to plug you with my ostwind if you're dumb enough to fly a straight line within 3.5k of me.



Karnak, aircraft still interfere with GV fights, even if it's not quite so bad now. Having things go the other way a little bit is not a bad thing, since aircraft hold all the cards, if the player makes even the slightest effort to use them. The GVers shouldn't be punished for the ineptitude and laziness of some of the would be bomb tards.

Can you not read?  I have posted my suggestion over and over and over and it never involves reverting the icons.  I simple want the friendly GV icons to follow the same rules as the enemy GV icons so that Mr. Coward in his P-51D doesn't know from 6000 yards out where he needs to run to have a Wirbie clear his six and knowing that his enemy will never see the Wirbie until he is eating a face full of 20mm rounds.

And yes, having it go the other way is bad.  Unless you want to force air-to-air inclined players to go on cockroach squashing sprees out of frustration of having Wirbies repeatedly insert themselves into an air-to-air contest you ought to support this as well.

I also object to your continued insinuation that this only affects "bomb****s" who are attacking the GVs.

I am responding his claim that the "balance" between GVs and AC favors GVs, which is clearly not the case.  I assume his post is motivated by his perception that it is harder to kill GVs when there are Wirbles around, which is true.  However, he is not looking at things from the GV perspective.  The "duel" proposal is an attempt to get him to see how one-sided the AC/GV interaction actually is.  Not only does the Tiger II player die every time, but loses massive perks in addition. 

MH

As I said, it is not an accurate description of MA combat.  Of course in a duel the P-51 would be favored, but the MA is not a duel and it is highly unlikely that it would be a single P-51D vs a single Tiger II.