Introduce a soft flak vehicle and perk the flakpanzers.

[TDeacon]

Can you not read?  I have posted my suggestion over and over and over and it never involves reverting the icons.  I simple want the friendly GV icons to follow the same rules as the enemy GV icons so that Mr. Coward in his P-51D doesn't know from 6000 yards out where he needs to run to have a Wirbie clear his six and knowing that his enemy will never see the Wirbie until he is eating a face full of 20mm rounds.

And yes, having it go the other way is bad.  Unless you want to force air-to-air inclined players to go on cockroach squashing sprees out of frustration of having Wirbies repeatedly insert themselves into an air-to-air contest you ought to support this as well.

I also object to your continued insinuation that this only affects "bomb****s" who are attacking the GVs.

As I said, it is not an accurate description of MA combat.  Of course in a duel the P-51 would be favored, but the MA is not a duel and it is highly unlikely that it would be a single P-51D vs a single Tiger II.

Perhaps Karnak is limiting his request to equalizing the detection range **for AC only** between enemy and friendly GVs.  If so, I would support his request.  Perhaps he is not one of those guys who wants GVers to spend their $15./month acting as targets for ground attack aircraft.  Is that more or less correct, Karnak?

MH

[Tilt]

aircraft still interfere with GV fights, even if it's not quite so bad now

This perspective..... Seems to think that there is this sort of gv world apart from the rest of the cartoon battle..... I hear all the time .... reference to bomb**** s etcetera etcetera.


GV's are a part of AH not some separate little world isolated from it everything may enjoy combat with everything else.

[Tilt]

Perhaps if Karnak is limiting his request to equalizing the detection range **for AC only** between enemy and friendly GVs. 

MH

Granted... Although

I think it could apply to all if the icon range was unversally made inversely proportionate to vehicle speed as it is would beto  ac speed. If you stop your gv you have max icon range to friendlies. Even at 30mph you would have twice the icon range of a Storch.

I don't see it bringing any benefit however. It would be just a slightly more elegant piece of code across all gv icons still keeping enemy gv to gv icons invisible.

[TDeacon]

This perspective..... Seems to think that there is this sort of gv world apart from the rest of the cartoon battle..... I hear all the time .... reference to bomb**** s etcetera etcetera.

GV's are a part of AH not some separate little world isolated from it everything may enjoy combat with everything else.

The game has evolved, Tilt.  Many people now spend a lot of time and effort on GV "furballing", which takes time to develop, and GVs are no longer just a base-capture human-wave target.  If the game doesn't allow for GV-on-GV  play, reasonably free of constant AC interference, then some players will log off and may eventually leave.  That wouldn't be good for any of us.  

MH

[Karnak]

Perhaps Karnak is limiting his request to equalizing the detection range **for AC only** between enemy and friendly GVs.  If so, I would support his request.  Perhaps he is not one of those guys who wants GVers to spend their $15./month acting as targets for ground attack aircraft.  Is that more or less correct, Karnak?

MH

That is precisely correct.

Tanks obviously need to have friendly icons at longer ranges or it would be broken by killshooter.

[Zoney]

I disagree.  More than enough carrots have been handed to the GVers.  They complained about aircraft interfering in GV fights and changes were made, but now that we have a new balance and the shoe is on the other foot the GVers are now arguing to maintain their ability to interfere with aircraft fights and get relatively free kills.

I agree with this 100%

Remember, any GV'er at anytime can simply take up a fighter and hunt down the aircraft that has "ruined his day".  This however will require that you "learn to fly".

I know, I know, I'm not a Gv'er.  I have always thought of it this way:  You graduate from Officer Training school in WW2, you are then given the choice (just like the choice here), do you want to command a GV or an aircraft and I wonder how many would really really choose the GV.  I understand they were not really given this choice in WW2 you went where you were ordered to go, but here it is your choice.

[Tank-Ace]

Zoney, you know I fly aircraft, and am a decent pilot. Yet I GV a lot as well. I and people like me are the hole in your thinking. Nobody on the ground needs to learn to fly; in fact quite the opposite is true. Most gv bombing seems to be brought about by a tank driver being killed and getting pissed.

Basically if you bomb GV's, you need to learn how to tank, or your VH is down.



@ Karnak,  I think cutting icon range for friendly GV's in half is pretty damn generous, since your wish would completely kill teamwork between the two groups. But hey, if you want to further the "f**k you, other players" attitude that has been popping up in the MA, on your head be out.

And if you want to furball over a GV spawn, you're gonna have a bad time. Deal with it, it's part of the game, and won't change significantly if you change friendly icons. But if you're twisting things, and are still talking about the runner problem, suck it up, it happens less than bombing.

Come to that, I don't think I've ever had a runner drag me to a Wirbelwind.

[Karnak]

I have had it happen multiple times and I rarely play anymore.  When it does happen it makes me stop playing.

If they want to coordinate, fine, but they should have to work at coordinating, it shouldn't be given to them for free.  GVs and fighters did not have that level of coordination and here it is abused by cowards dragging an opponent to a Wirbie he literally cannot see before it opens up on him.  Saying "Just break off" is not acceptable as it makes the runner aircraft even more potent when all they have to do is run to cause the enemy to give up, no Wirbie needed.  Saying "Don't fight over GV spawns." is just as useful as telling GVers to not fight near air fields.  We all go where the fight is.

[smoe]

+1 for increasing gv tag distance during and after firing.

[thrila]

And, you know... The 225mph speed advantage you have. And the fact that you can maneuver freely in 3 dimensions. And that you can grab ordnance to guarantee they die.

Yeah, if you take the derp planes, you will be killed a few times. Expect it, because that's as it should be. But those GV's have numerous aircraft after them, and often times die when you don't see them die. It's not at all like they're invincible.

Besides that, what exactly do you propose be done? Change the view range back heavily in favor of the aircraft, so you can slaughter tanks more easily? I'm still going to plug you with my ostwind if you're dumb enough to fly a straight line within 3.5k of me.



Karnak, aircraft still interfere with GV fights, even if it's not quite so bad now. Having things go the other way a little bit is not a bad thing, since aircraft hold all the cards, if the player makes even the slightest effort to use them. The GVers shouldn't be punished for the ineptitude and laziness of some of the would be bomb tards.

I don't propose anything, i am refuting your point that flaks are mildly effective, they are anything but. The wirblewind had a k/d of 1.4 last tour including its numerous deaths to tanks, and had a positive k/d against all a/c with exception of 3 (the a20 was not one of them which IMO is the best anti-gv platform in the game). The best thing to do in the presence of the wirblewind, which is by far the most common flak, is to stay well clear. Dive bombing isn't all that easy and most people struggle to do it with any degree of accuracy. I don't know where you're getting this idea that people who bomb gv's do it because they are inept and lazy. I can just as easily say people gv because they are inept pilots and too lazy to learn, and i'm sure there are people who hold this belief.

[Tilt]

The game has evolved, Tilt.  Many people now spend a lot of time and effort on GV "furballing", which takes time to develop, and GVs are no longer just a base-capture human-wave target.  If the game doesn't allow for GV-on-GV  play, reasonably free of constant AC interference, then some players will log off and may eventually leave.  That wouldn't be good for any of us.  

MH

If ac have access over a "GV furball" then the game has evolved to permit those GV's to be attacked by those ac and for those GV's to defend them selves appropriately.

If folk cannot play in this environment then.............

[Zoney]

Tank-ace.  I know you are more than just a GV'er.  Please don't take my reply personally.  I have 200 tuned, and that along with the country channel shows many a complaint about aircraft ruining a GV fight.  I am curious when folks post these complaints and will look their score up just to see, and find many of them do not fly, fly very little, or many times onlly GV and fly bombers.  I don't dismiss them as being the less for it, i feel bad for them because this is such a wonderful game to fly fighters.  I love flying fighters here and simply want more folks to join in the fighter fun.  Also please don't send me any more pictures of you drunk and naked.

[Tilt]

Come to that, I don't think I've ever had a runner drag me to a Wirbelwind.

All the time.... And indeed very often whilst running for dear life with the usual daisy chain behind me I will be hailed on range channel by a wirblewind or Ostwind driver to drag them over to him. I often do so as well. But it is not fair that I see my AA saviour some 3000 yards before my chasers do.

[Karnak]

All the time.... And indeed very often whilst running for dear life with the usual daisy chain behind me I will be hailed on range channel by a wirblewind or Ostwind driver to drag them over to him. I often do so as well. But it is not fair that I see my AA saviour some 5400 yards before my chasers do.

Fixed.

[Tank-Ace]

I have had it happen multiple times and I rarely play anymore.  When it does happen it makes me stop playing.

If they want to coordinate, fine, but they should have to work at coordinating, it shouldn't be given to them for free.  GVs and fighters did not have that level of coordination and here it is abused by cowards dragging an opponent to a Wirbie he literally cannot see before it opens up on him.  Saying "Just break off" is not acceptable as it makes the runner aircraft even more potent when all they have to do is run to cause the enemy to give up, no Wirbie needed.  Saying "Don't fight over GV spawns." is just as useful as telling GVers to not fight near air fields.  We all go where the fight is.

I don't stop playing when I get bombed. I grab an Osti and blow their wing off.

And I accept being bombed when I up at an airfield. It's when we get bombed at our gv bases, or at what started exclusively as a gv fight that I complain. If we start shooting you down on a regular basis, without you being dragged to us, then you can complain as well. And you lot always told us to bring air support. Now I'm saying you can ask nicely and I might up a tank to protect you from the flackers. Irksome to not be untouchable anymore, I know.


And zoney, you can't contain the nekked!!!!