Post War Heart Break

[Widewing]

Post war heart break.....All destroyed or scrapped.

[Karnak]

We didn't need to save all of them, but it would have been nice to save more of them than we did, particularly the Axis examples.  If we'd simply stored them for future museum use.

I know the UK was worse than broke at the end of the war and pretty much had to turn whatever they could into raw materials to try to rebuild, which is why you don't see any UK battleships preserved like US battleships.  I am not sure how the Soviets saw this kind of thing, they had a very different world view.

[Oldman731]

Not sure who it was - Frank Tallman, maybe? - who bought up a bunch of surplus bombers and fighters right after the war.  He owned one of the top 20 air forces in the world at the time.  Drained the fuel from the tanks, sold it and nearly paid for the entire purchase.

- oldman

[Guppy35]

Not sure who it was - Frank Tallman, maybe? - who bought up a bunch of surplus bombers and fighters right after the war.  He owned one of the top 20 air forces in the world at the time.  Drained the fuel from the tanks, sold it and nearly paid for the entire purchase.

- oldman

Paul Mantz and Frank Tallman I believe for their "Hollywood" Air Force.  They kept the best of the aircraft and scrapped the rest too I believe.

I was talking to a WW2 vet the other day and he made a comment that fits for all those junked airplanes.

All he wanted to do was to get as far away from WW2 as he could.  There was nothing romantic or glorious about it for him and he'd survived D-Day, the Breakout and the start of the Lorraine Campaign before being seriously wounded in November 44 and spending 8 months in the hospital.

It seems crazy to us who have 'romanticized' WW2 but consider that not a single Pearl Harbor BB was saved.  Nevada was sunk at Bikini.  The other survivors were scrapped in the 50s.  Imagine one of those preserved in it's spot in Battleship row along with the remains of the Arizona.  What a history lesson that would have been to get to walk the decks.   The Saratoga was blasted at Bikini.  The Enterprise was scrapped.   The Franklin would have been a sobering memorial considering her history.   All those 100 mission + B17s and 24s were smelted down.  Lots of Aces fighter planes cut up.  No one was thinking about preserving them for the future.  Can't hardly blame them considering what they'd been through.

[BaldEagl]

All he wanted to do was to get as far away from WW2 as he could.  There was nothing romantic or glorious about it for him and he'd survived D-Day, the Breakout and the start of the Lorraine Campaign before being seriously wounded in November 44 and spending 8 months in the hospital.

It seems crazy to us who have 'romanticized' WW2 but consider that not a single Pearl Harbor BB was saved.  Nevada was sunk at Bikini.  The other survivors were scrapped in the 50s.  Imagine one of those preserved in it's spot in Battleship row along with the remains of the Arizona.  What a history lesson that would have been to get to walk the decks.   The Saratoga was blasted at Bikini.  The Enterprise was scrapped.   The Franklin would have been a sobering memorial considering her history.   All those 100 mission + B17s and 24s were smelted down.  Lots of Aces fighter planes cut up.  No one was thinking about preserving them for the future.  Can't hardly blame them considering what they'd been through.

And yet several US Naval vessels have survived and become museum pieces and several veterns relish their place in history.  If you've never been to the Intrepid Museum on the the river in Manhattan I suggest going.  It's amazing seeing how the men lived, the galley, walking into the tower, etc.  When I was there there were folded wing F6F's and F4U's on the hanger deck and other, later planes on the deck.

When I lived near Albany, NY the USS Slater was docked there, a restored destroyer escort.  I couldn't believe how steep the bow deck was.  There was a reunion there every year that was relatively well attended given the age of the attendies.

I now live in a building with a 8th AF B-17 gunner who flew 36 missions (I haven't verified this) and he seems genuinley proud.

Also see this post from Widewing in another thread:  http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,352597.msg4663386.html#msg4663386

I'm sure there were those who'd rather forget but at the same time I'm thinking you can't generalize like that.

Everything significant in human history should be recorded and preserved to whatever extent possible.  It's part of how we learn, grow and move forward.

[Saxman]

The problem a lot of times was money.

Halsey lobbied HARD to save Enterprise, but the funding that was set up to turn her into a museum was pulled at the last minute and another backer couldn't be found. The cost of maintaining Saratoga and Nevada was likely a similar factor in sending them to bikini. LARGE numbers of aircraft were dumped overboard or disposed of overseas to avoid the costs of shipping them back home again.

It costs a LOT of money to maintain these large ships, and the simple, sad fact is that the private foundations that oversee them have to rely on donations from the public and that's barely enough to keep them going. That was one of the BIGGEST obstacles in getting Missouri turned into a museum. That's a damn BIG ship, and it costs a LOT of money to keep her in trim (IIRC, the groups maintaining the Iowas as museum ships are required by the government to keep them in shape so they can be recalled into service if needed. That's a tall order for private money).

[earl1937]

Paul Mantz and Frank Tallman I believe for their "Hollywood" Air Force.  They kept the best of the aircraft and scrapped the rest too I believe.

I was talking to a WW2 vet the other day and he made a comment that fits for all those junked airplanes.

All he wanted to do was to get as far away from WW2 as he could.  There was nothing romantic or glorious about it for him and he'd survived D-Day, the Breakout and the start of the Lorraine Campaign before being seriously wounded in November 44 and spending 8 months in the hospital.

It seems crazy to us who have 'romanticized' WW2 but consider that not a single Pearl Harbor BB was saved.  Nevada was sunk at Bikini.  The other survivors were scrapped in the 50s.  Imagine one of those preserved in it's spot in Battleship row along with the remains of the Arizona.  What a history lesson that would have been to get to walk the decks.   The Saratoga was blasted at Bikini.  The Enterprise was scrapped.   The Franklin would have been a sobering memorial considering her history.   All those 100 mission + B17s and 24s were smelted down.  Lots of Aces fighter planes cut up.  No one was thinking about preserving them for the future.  Can't hardly blame them considering what they'd been through.

Guppy, I know you know more about it than me, but I thought the battleship USS Maryland survived the war and saw action in Nam! Can you comment on this please!

[Karnak]

Guppy, I know you know more about it than me, but I thought the battleship USS Maryland survived the war and saw action in Nam! Can you comment on this please!

Wikipedia says BB-46 was decommissioned on April 3rd, 1947 and sold for scrap on July 8th, 1959.

[SmokinLoon]

I'm really surprised the planes were not sold to private pilots for leisure use.  I understand the maintenance issues with the highly engineered engines made for war, but one would think that those Spitfires, P40's, 109's, etc, all could have been refitted with less powerful engines and sold as puddle jumpers and trainers. 

[Saxman]

Wait, are we sure these are being disposed of? Looks more like Corky's personal parking space.

[Rich46yo]

The P-38 picture in particular breaks my heart. Ive known WW2 pilots and despite their dislike of war they all had a sincere love for the airplanes. And it became a life long Love they passed on to many of us. Im sure the logistics and costs had to be the deciding factors. Even America had a ton of debt with a whole lot of men heading home wanting a job but you have to figure if such a thing happened today more of history would be saved. At least I hope it would.

[Guppy35]

And yet several US Naval vessels have survived and become museum pieces and several veterns relish their place in history.  If you've never been to the Intrepid Museum on the the river in Manhattan I suggest going.  It's amazing seeing how the men lived, the galley, walking into the tower, etc.  When I was there there were folded wing F6F's and F4U's on the hanger deck and other, later planes on the deck.

When I lived near Albany, NY the USS Slater was docked there, a restored destroyer escort.  I couldn't believe how steep the bow deck was.  There was a reunion there every year that was relatively well attended given the age of the attendies.

I now live in a building with a 8th AF B-17 gunner who flew 36 missions (I haven't verified this) and he seems genuinley proud.

Also see this post from Widewing in another thread:  http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,352597.msg4663386.html#msg4663386

I'm sure there were those who'd rather forget but at the same time I'm thinking you can't generalize like that.

Everything significant in human history should be recorded and preserved to whatever extent possible.  It's part of how we learn, grow and move forward.

I think I didn't say it very well.  Those ships that were preserved, like intrepid, continued to serve long after WW2.  There came a time much later when looking back became important.  It wasn't at the end of WW2 when all those birds were scrapped.  The vets came out of the war wanting to get on wih thier lives and look forward.  It wasn't a lack of pride.  It was wanting to makeup for lost time. 

The preservation movement was much more a 1980s thing when the vets were retiring and looking back was a natural part of growing older. 

As for selling the planes back then.  You could buy them and a few racing pilots or Hollywood folks did.  But there was not going to be thousands of folks doing so. 

Understand I've been a WW2 junkie since the mid 60s.  When I went Spitfire pilot info hunting and started tracking them down in the 80s, I was the first one who'd asked them about thier experience.  It amazed me that no one had asked them sooner. 

[Guppy35]

Guppy, I know you know more about it than me, but I thought the battleship USS Maryland survived the war and saw action in Nam! Can you comment on this please!

The only BBs to see post WW2 were the four Iowa class ships.  That includes off Vietnam and Gulf War I

[Arlo]

Understand I've been a WW2 junkie since the mid 60s.  When I went Spitfire pilot info hunting and started tracking them down in the 80s, I was the first one who'd asked them about thier experience.  It amazed me that no one had asked them sooner. 

And bless ya for it. Initiative often outweighs curiosity or even genuine admiration.
Prior to your efforts it's likely that few who appreciated and admired the greatest
generation of our nation (or many) even knew about their reunions, much less thought
they could have the privilege of meeting them in person. I was limited (or thought I was)
to a grandfather and all of his friends at the VFW post.

[earl1937]

The only BBs to see post WW2 were the four Iowa class ships.  That includes off Vietnam and Gulf War I

JUst to satisfy my curiosity, would you know the names of those 4. I have a neighbor who served on the Maryland right after WW2 and he is curiosity wondering if it is still around.