P-63 KingCobra......again

[Vinkman]

It's been a few years and many of the wish list planes have been delivered by HTC (Thank You!)

So I thought it was time to ask again for the P-63 Kingcobra.

Impact on the War Effort
The Kingcobra did not have much of an impact on the war as it was a victim of circumstance. Rolling off the assembly in the first half of 1944, the P-63 did not reach Russian Air units in large numbers until Late 1944, where they are stockpiled for for use against the Japanese, they saw limited action in the invasion of Manchuko in August of 1945.

Numbers
The Kingcobra was however produced in large numbers with 2600 planes making it into Russian hands.

Design/Novelty factor
Easily the best All-American V-12 fighter of the war from a performance standpoint (P-51's have Rolls Royce designed Engines).  The Big Allison finally lives up to it's power potential, after a lot of bad installations gave it a bad reputation. The P-63 represents too much good engineering, poured into 2600 planes, to be left on the Virtual sidelines. This was a fantastic mass production plane that entered service 18 months before the end of the war, but due to the strange circumstances surrounding it's Lend-Lease agreement, it never got its chance to shine. Aces High can give it that chance.

Usage
The quirky gun package will frustrate many and keep the skies from becoming full of P-63s. But the P-39 has always had it's dedicated fans, despite it's sub-par MA performance. The P-63 will be solid favorite for those dedicated few, making its addition to the game more valuable than many previously added, more historically significant planes, that became hangar queens a week after they were introduced. If HTC is going to do all the work, we owe it to them to ask for things we will actually fly.

Hopefully it can make the list for the next vote. 

[Saxman]

The P-63 represents too much good engineering, poured into 2600 planes, to be left on the Virtual sidelines.

This is why:

The Kingcobra did not have much of an impact on the war as it was a victim of circumstance. Rolling off the assembly in the first half of 1944, the P-63 did not reach Russian Air units in large numbers until Late 1944, where they are stockpiled for for use against the Japanese, they saw limited action in the invasion of Manchuko in August of 1945.

And to that last sentence, even after YEARS of requests, no one has ever been able to provide a definitive smoking gun that the P-63 ACTUALLY saw combat. The one story reportedly showing a P-63 getting a kill that's been repeated has placed the incident in about a half a dozen different areas, and against several different types of aircraft. The other sources brought up have been either unreliable (Russians cheating and passing off P-63s as P-39s on the Eastern Front) or not particularly well-supported (escort or ground attack missions against the Japanese) and the cause of significant debate.

There's probably a good half a dozen or more Russian birds ALONE that are needed. Then there's the Beaufighter, Beaufort, Ki-45, Ki-44, Ki-27, J2M, ANY French bird, (particularly the M.S. 406) TBD, SB2C, not to mention the Hawk 75 for the French, Dutch, Finns, and Commonwealth.

The case for the P-63 is still no better than for the F8F. And it's pretty much the general consensus that the F8F shouldn't be added.

[Randy1]

I am +1 on the P 63.  I would assume it would be skinned Russian.

[earl1937]

It's been a few years and many of the wish list planes have been delivered by HTC (Thank You!)

So I thought it was time to ask again for the P-63 Kingcobra.

Impact on the War Effort
The Kingcobra did not have much of an impact on the war as it was a victim of circumstance. Rolling off the assembly in the first half of 1944, the P-63 did not reach Russian Air units in large numbers until Late 1944, where they are stockpiled for for use against the Japanese, they saw limited action in the invasion of Manchuko in August of 1945.

Numbers
The Kingcobra was however produced in large numbers with 2600 planes making it into Russian hands.

Design/Novelty factor
Easily the best All-American V-12 fighter of the war from a performance standpoint (P-51's have Rolls Royce designed Engines).  The Big Allison finally lives up to it's power potential, after a lot of bad installations gave it a bad reputation. The P-63 represents too much good engineering, poured into 2600 planes, to be left on the Virtual sidelines. This was a fantastic mass production plane that entered service 18 months before the end of the war, but due to the strange circumstances surrounding it's Lend-Lease agreement, it never got its chance to shine. Aces High can give it that chance.

Usage
The quirky gun package will frustrate many and keep the skies from becoming full of P-63s. But the P-39 has always had it's dedicated fans, despite it's sub-par MA performance. The P-63 will be solid favorite for those dedicated few, making its addition to the game more valuable than many previously added, more historically significant planes, that became hangar queens a week after they were introduced. If HTC is going to do all the work, we owe it to them to ask for things we will actually fly.

Hopefully it can make the list for the next vote. 

+100! From what I have read, a truly great aircraft, which was never given the chance to strut its stuff, so to speak. BTW, the 51D' and K models had the Packard built V-1650-7 engines, which were far superior to the Rolls-Royce V-1710's in the early models because of the single stage supercharger. The two stage blower made the D's and K's a great performer at higher altitudes, where the 17's and 24's were flying and getting intercepted. The Packard built engine was licensed by Rolls Royce for production in the U.S. plant at North American.

[Karnak]

Earl,

I am pretty sure you meant to say "Allison V-1710's in the early models" instead of "Rolls-Royce V-1710's in the early models".

[Plazus]

Design/Novelty factor
Easily the best All-American V-12 fighter of the war from a performance standpoint (P-51's have Rolls Royce designed Engines).  The Big Allison finally lives up to it's power potential, after a lot of bad installations gave it a bad reputation.

The Allison engines faired quite well with the P-38. Just sayin'. 

[BuckShot]

P-63   +1

[Squire]

Unless there was a full squadron involved in combat I say no. Otherwise AH turns into the what-if WW2 plane sim with every once-flown expiramental machine flying around the LWA in the 100s. Much as I genuinely like the P-63.

[Saxman]

Unless there was a full squadron involved in combat I say no. Otherwise AH turns into the what-if WW2 plane sim with every once-flown expiramental machine flying around the LWA in the 100s. Much as I genuinely like the P-63.

That's been the problem. None of the sources given can consistently confirm this is the case.

At any rate, everyone's always complaining about the emphasis on late-war American iron. The P-63 may never have flown in American colors, but it's STILL another late-war American machine.

As I said in my post, if you want Russian birds, there's quite a few more significant ones missing:

Yak-1
MiG-3
LaGG-3
Il-4
Tu-2
Pe-2 (seriously, THE most-produced twin-engine aircraft of the war)

Not to mention if you want to flesh out the early-war plane set, the I-15 and I-153 would be invaluable both for Eastern Front scenarios and the early stages Sino-Japanese War.

I would say ALL of these should be added (plus all the ones I mentioned in my first post) before the P-63 is even a blip on the radar.

[Karnak]

Pe-2 (seriously, THE most-produced twin-engine aircraft of the war)

Weren't more Ju88s built?

Wikipedia's numbers would put both the Ju88 and Wellington ahead of it.

Ju88: 15,183
Wellington: 11,461
Pe-2: 11,427

[Saxman]

Ah, I misread the page.

Either way, 11,427 built and saw service over the entirety of the war, with the Russian plane set missing any sort of native-built bomber (excluding Lend-Lease machines) on top of that.

Also add the TB-3 to the list.

[bustr]

So does the P63 qualify for introduction to Aces High?

[Nashorn]

maybe not in the near future, but I agree that one day the P-63 should be included in the game, but if I may ask, why not better variants of the P-39Q, I have been reading about it a little bit and it seems they made a 4 blade prop version as well, anyone know how the Q-25 and Q 30 stack up against the ones we have now?

[Vinkman]

This is why:

And to that last sentence, even after YEARS of requests, no one has ever been able to provide a definitive smoking gun that the P-63 ACTUALLY saw combat. The one story reportedly showing a P-63 getting a kill that's been repeated has placed the incident in about a half a dozen different areas, and against several different types of aircraft.

I don't think the requirement is that the plane got a kill. The requirement is saw combat. I think everyone would like to see a Russian flight report, but those are hard to come by. Books referencing the invasion of Japan at the end of the war that reference P-63 in action are no good why?

There's probably a good half a dozen or more Russian birds ALONE that are needed. Then there's the Beaufighter, Beaufort, Ki-45, Ki-44, Ki-27, J2M, ANY French bird, (particularly the M.S. 406) TBD, SB2C, not to mention the Hawk 75 for the French, Dutch, Finns, and Commonwealth.

what's your definition of needed? I think too many wish listers want to collect warbirds like Porcelain figurines. They are to sit on the shelf so you can say you have them, but they are not to use. See the He-111 that all of the "historians" said we needed. All that work, by people that don't work for free, and no one uses it. Almost Zero impact on the game. In business that's called a bad investment. I think usage and game play are the most important factor to consider.

The case for the P-63 is still no better than for the F8F. And it's pretty much the general consensus that the F8F shouldn't be added.

The P-63 entered the war 15 months before the F8F. Served in Squadron strength, and Saw action (not the best of references for the action, but it has a combat reference). IT was an active and deployed WWII fighter in large numbers for the last year of the war. It was just a quiet front.  The F8F was deployed in Aug 1945, it is well established that it DIDN'T see action. So the F8F case is much weaker.    

[Vinkman]

That's been the problem. None of the sources given can consistently confirm this is the case.

At any rate, everyone's always complaining about the emphasis on late-war American iron. The P-63 may never have flown in American colors, but it's STILL another late-war American machine.

As I said in my post, if you want Russian birds, there's quite a few more significant ones missing:

Yak-1
MiG-3
LaGG-3
Il-4
Tu-2
Pe-2 (seriously, THE most-produced twin-engine aircraft of the war)

Not to mention if you want to flesh out the early-war plane set, the I-15 and I-153 would be invaluable both for Eastern Front scenarios and the early stages Sino-Japanese War.

I would say ALL of these should be added (plus all the ones I mentioned in my first post) before the P-63 is even a blip on the radar.

Please keep the discussion the P-63.