P-63 KingCobra......again

[Saxman]

Please keep the discussion the P-63.  

This is about the P-63. It's about why the hell do we need the P-63 when ALL of those aircraft are far and away more significant?

what's your definition of needed? I think too many wish listers want to collect warbirds like Porcelain figurines. They are to sit on the shelf so you can say you have them, but they are not to use. See the He-111 that all of the "historians" said we needed. All that work, by people that don't work for free, and no one uses it. Almost Zero impact on the game. In business that's called a bad investment. I think usage and game play are the most important factor to consider.

Two words: Special. Events.

The TBD would be absolutely useless in the Main Arenas. But it's frankly just WRONG having TBMs during the Coral Sea and Midway FSOs or scenarios, while the Ki-45 is outlcassed by almost every other twin-engine fighter in the plane set, but it's just not right seeing Bf-110s in their place in special events.

This game is NOT only about the Main Arenas. The Russian plane set is sadly lacking for special events. It's one thing to toss in Lend-Lease birds to provide a bit of flavor for Eastern Front setups, but they should NOT have to be used entirely because the much more significant native aircraft aren't even in the game.

What need does the P-63 provide? The Russians already have a late-war monster plane in the La-7 (of which the majority of sorties are flown in a configuration that was only RARELY used in real-life in the first place) and arguably the Yak-3. And do we really need yet ANOTHER late-war American fighter to go alongside the P-47M, P-51D, P-38L, and F4U-4?

[Wmaker]

See the He-111 that all of the "historians" said we needed. All that work, by people that don't work for free, and no one uses it. Almost Zero impact on the game. In business that's called a bad investment. I think usage and game play are the most important factor to consider.

I'm sure it was quite clear for most people that wished for He111 that it would be mostly used in special events. The fact that it sees little use in the LWMA shouldn't really be a big surprise. There is a BoB scenario coming up which has been extremely popular over the years and finally there's much more historically appropriate bomber which can be used there. There are long time historically oriented subscribers who almost exclusively fly special events.

Please keep the discussion the P-63. 

Hard to do when you yourself start questioning the viability of other planes already in game.

[earl1937]

Earl,

I am pretty sure you meant to say "Allison V-1710's in the early models" instead of "Rolls-Royce V-1710's in the early models".

You are right sir! Sometimes this pain med they have me on for my back gets the best of me! I knew better than to try to visit the forum when I have to take one or two of those things, but was excited to see a wish for the P-63. I personally think it would be a great addition to Aces High, but I am sure that Hi Tech has his reasons for not putting it in the game before now.
  Thanks for keeping me straight!

[Vinkman]

Hard to do when you yourself start questioning the viability of other planes already in game.

 

[Vinkman]

This is about the P-63. It's about why the hell do we need the P-63 when ALL of those aircraft are far and away more significant?

Two words: Special. Events.

The TBD would be absolutely useless in the Main Arenas. But it's frankly just WRONG having TBMs during the Coral Sea and Midway FSOs or scenarios, while the Ki-45 is outlcassed by almost every other twin-engine fighter in the plane set, but it's just not right seeing Bf-110s in their place in special events.

This game is NOT only about the Main Arenas. The Russian plane set is sadly lacking for special events. It's one thing to toss in Lend-Lease birds to provide a bit of flavor for Eastern Front setups, but they should NOT have to be used entirely because the much more significant native aircraft aren't even in the game.

What need does the P-63 provide? The Russians already have a late-war monster plane in the La-7 (of which the majority of sorties are flown in a configuration that was only RARELY used in real-life in the first place) and arguably the Yak-3. And do we really need yet ANOTHER late-war American fighter to go alongside the P-47M, P-51D, P-38L, and F4U-4?

Yes or no is fine. 

[Saxman]

Yes or no is fine. 

I guess I wasn't clear enough.

[Eric19]

+1,000!!!!!!!! vink I love the P39 but it lacks power above 17k btw fastest speed without wep is 378 at 15,500ft this would finally be able to compete against all the late war monsters such as the k4 and spit14

[Yankee67]

Interesting topic, with good points on both sides.  However if it was a real-world numbers/impact thing, why is the Ta-152 an available model in AH?  I believe less than 50 Ta-152's were known to have been manufactured, no?  (Also, quick shout out for the Soviet 122mm IS-2 tank, 2200-some odd built, delivery started in 1943.)  But I'm not about to second guess a decade of decision making from the folks at AH.  I like the game, and I'm never bored.

But still, it would be interesting if AH were to deliver a unique new ride every now and then, like the Fa 223, Fl 282, P-63 or IS-2.   

[Tank-Ace]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most people over estimating the P-63? "finally be able to compete against the late war monsters"...

Depending on what you consider to be "competing", but you need to be coming up on 365mph on the deck, and 4000fpm minimum to be in that category, if you ask me.

Yeah, it might be a less toejamty P-39, but it's not going to give the K4 any competition in the performance department.

[Fox]

Tank Ace, according to the thread below posted by Widewing, the P63 has a WEP sea level speed of 384 mph and a 5000 fpm climb rate.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,330396.0.html

The 109K-4, per the plane performance page, has a WEP sea level speed of about 370 mph and about a 4600 fpm climb rate.

[Saxman]

In other words, it's wanted strictly because of its performance and no one cares that it had absolutely no significance to the war WHATSOEVER.

Basically, imagine having a perked aircraft that you could only fly in that five-minute delay before the map resets after the current one has been won. That's EXACTLY the amount of impact the P-63 had.

[Nashorn]

much like the Ta-152, Me-163, tiger II, wirblewind, ostwind, F4U-1C, Ar234, so if the P-63 ever gets added it wont be the only one that did not have a big impact during the war, also no one has mentioned that while not officially, it is thought that the soviets did use the P-63 against Germany, but on paper they were marked down as P-39 sorties due to the lend lease agreement, nothing that can ever be proved but something to think about none the less

edit, and if you really want to talk impact on the war, one could say that the Tiger 2 had a negative one, as they could have used the time and material to make more of the good tanks they already had instead of that massive POS that broke down if you glanced at it the wrong way

[Saxman]

All of those saw MONTHS of combat. The P-63 MAYBE saw combat in the very last week of the war (rumored use of P-63s "disguised" as P-39s shouldn't even enter into consideration at all).

That's a HUGE difference.

[Nashorn]

you said impact on the war, not how many months of combat they saw, I don't see why you are so opposed to seeing it in the game, the more A/C the better, I have said before that I don't think it should be added right away, I am just arguing that it does indeed have a place in AH at a later time

[Zacherof]

Zinnnng! +1