B17 Skin Help

[T4Tm0]

Hi All, I have been working hard rivet by rivet to produce the rivet layer for a new fortress skin I want to do. Its nearly done BUT as Im not a graphics tekky I cant get the rivet lines at the nose section to curve right (its not smooth) and im stuck basically where I cant go any further. I have looked at youtube for guidance but it just don't look right when I draw the curves using the anchor points  in photoshop etc.

I really want to get my skin going so pretty pretty please with a cherry on top would some king hearted graphics legend possibly send me the rivets layer for the B17 and put me out of my misery. Obviously the skin can then get submitted for comment by Hitech and then fingers crossed everyone can use it.

thanks for any help gratefully received

T4Tommy

 

[Kazan_HB]

http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/forums/f37-photoshop-tutorials/step-step-rivets-479/

[Dragon Tamer]

I'm confused, do you have a screen shot of what you are talking about?

[T4Tm0]

I have posted a screen shot to show the area I have done plus another to show the area that Im struggling with which is the nose section where the rivet lines curves. When I use the "path" lines to curve the rivet lines the rivet lines are not a smooth curve and it looks poor so I worried this will look bad in the game? what do you think Dragan. As I say Im not a graphics guy so Im learning as I go along

[Dragon Tamer]

If the rivet line that you added lines up with the original rivet line then it should be good. Such a small detail isn't likely to be noticed in game. My B-29 skin has a lot of such errors in it but no body notices until I point it out.

If you are still unsure then you can finalize your image and try it out in game or in the skin viewer to see how it looks.

[Volron]

If the rivet line that you added lines up with the original rivet line then it should be good. Such a small detail isn't likely to be noticed in game. My B-29 skin has a lot of such errors in it but no body notices until I point it out.

If you are still unsure then you can finalize your image and try it out in game or in the skin viewer to see how it looks.

Doesn't it still show a difference between what the skin viewer will show vs what is seen in-game?  I recall seeing a post about someone who was having such an issue.  The skin look great and ready to go in the viewer, but when loaded in-game, it was horribly screwed.

[Dragon Tamer]

If there is such a problem, I would be the wrong person to ask. I haven't done skins in game a lot except for when they are finished and I'm taking screen shots. I would always trust the in game view when ever there is such a discrepancy.

I know that if you don't convert the images to "indexed" properly it can cause all kinds of trouble when you go to view them.

[Devil 505]

What you need to remember is that pixels are square and arranged as a grid. There will always be an arc over a given distance where making a smooth curve is impossible. Your example is one of those times. A way to smooth the effect of a "stepped curve" is to turn (forgive me for using Gimp terminology here) is to stroke the path with anti-aliasing on. Instead of rivets being drawn on a single pixel, the rivet uses 4 pixels which have the darkness averaged to best match the true center of the arc you want.

[T4Tm0]

OK I really appreciate you guys taking the time to respond. I think it will just get the rivets as close as I can and see how it looks. One thing that I cant figure out is how to create a 1 pixel square hard brush ( effectively a pen). The best I can get is a random group of a few pixels which looks blurred and too big. I have chosen the 1 pixel 100 round template in the brush presents so does this happen because its a brush or because I have set up the brush profile correctly. The cursor on the screen is a tiny fan shape so have I got the wrong brush

thanks again

[FTJR]

When you select your Brush, hold down the brush button, there should be four choices, select the pencil for the clean version.

[T4Tm0]

Thanks FTJR, I can choose the pen option ok, I was trying to set a brush that looks like a hard 1 pixel square. I can then use the stroke fill option and chose a 1 pixel square brush that will be smoother over a curved line than the pencil rivets which appear uneven,   

[Krusty]

Remember that the skin will wrap and warp around the 3D curve of the model many places. In these areas you must adjust your pixels so they wrap as you want them. You don't adjust a line from 90 degrees to 80 degrees, or whatever the case may be, so that it shows up on the final project as 90 degrees.

In short, you check and adjust, check and adjust, until the problem is solved.

[T4Tm0]

 Ok thanks Krusty, I'm just going to do my best and see how it turns out. The rivet lines are important but it will be the panels, skin an weathering which will bring it to life. Cos it's mt 1st aces high skin there's a lot to learn but I know from doing skins in IL2 that once you've cracked it its great fun. 

[Krusty]

Keep in mind that the real B-17 was completely covered in rivets.... So much so that when you look up close with your face against it, there are too many to ever skin on a AH skin. They are so close that they are less than 1 pixel apart on the AH skin. You get solid lines and areas of fill.

Instead, look at it from further away. You really can only see rivets in certain areas, and often only at really close face-mushing distances and only if the light hits it in such a way to bring them out.

For example, even this high-res and rather large pic (dial up warning!) shows very little rivet detail on the frame:


Even on this very close view of a modern warbird you would barely notice the rivet detail if the sun weren't at a sharp angle causing shadows:


So I would caution restraint with B-17 rivet detailing. People seem to want to really overdo it in the name of weathering. That's not really weathering. There are plenty of other things you can do to give the skin "pop" and make it "shine," so I'd say there's no need to over-do the rivets.

[T4Tm0]

Ok Krusty, appreciate your advice thank you