Author Topic: The "One a day in Tampa Bay" Bomber  (Read 4764 times)

Offline earl1937

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Re: The "One a day in Tampa Bay" Bomber
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2013, 02:24:26 PM »
So what you are really saying is that it did not in fact have the best RTB record of any war that it was in......... :D  Just messin with ya....  :aok
:airplane: I have always felt that the Vietnam "action" was a political war, not one for territory gain or forcing our will on another country! If the politician's had stayed out of the war, countless men and women would not have lost there life in this "action".
We had the capability to completely bomb North Vietnam back into the stone age, mine their harbors and it would have been over with in a matter of days or weeks, but instead, certain thought they were Generals I guess.
By the way, LBJ, flew on the first B-26 raid out of Queensland, Australia on that Feb 1942 strike, as an Naval observer. I guess he learned a lot on that mission.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 02:27:38 PM by earl1937 »
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Offline earl1937

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Re: The "One a day in Tampa Bay" Bomber
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2013, 02:26:42 PM »
I have to agree here, as well.

Talking about the development of the B-26, its first combat, the training problems they had, is all about one plane. Then saying "this is the final version" -- it's just wrong. It's not semantics either. It's not misunderstanding. It's totally different planes. I might as well talk about the entire development and deployment of the B-17 then show a pic of a B-29 and say "This is the final version."

It would be the same thing. Totally different airframes, development, deployments, combat histories, etc....
:airplane: :bhead OK guys, I screwed up! I should have said, "a pic of the lastest B-26 or A-26 which were ever built"!
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Offline earl1937

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Re: The "One a day in Tampa Bay" Bomber
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2013, 02:31:42 PM »
Yup, Havoc and Invader are definitely of a lineage.
:airplane: Sorry Charlie, I don't know of any parts from a "Havoc" that would interchange with a B-26, but a lot of parts are inter-changeable with the Marauder and the B-26C, and no I am not going to give you a list of those forty four parts.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: The "One a day in Tampa Bay" Bomber
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2013, 03:00:09 PM »
:airplane: Sorry Charlie, I don't know of any parts from a "Havoc" that would interchange with a B-26, but a lot of parts are inter-changeable with the Marauder and the B-26C, and no I am not going to give you a list of those forty four parts.
Lineage does not mean interchangeable parts.  It refers to design team and company applying the lessons learned to the next aircraft designed for the same role.  For example, the DH Hornet shares lineage with the DH Mosquito, but is a completely different aircraft.

The B-26 and A-26 shared engines.  The P-51 and Spitfire shared an engine too, does that make them the same fighter?  How about the N1K2-J and the Ki-84? MiG-3 and Il-2?

Engines were not designed by the same people who designed the airplane and many aircraft, completely unrelated from one another, from different companies, used the same engine.  When the same engine is used there is likely to be some additionally shared parts.

The Marauder and Invader have completely different wings, a completely different fuselage, a completely different tail and a completely different cockpit.  I can't tell if they used the same landing gear or not from photos, though that would be unusual.  They are not the same
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Offline Puma44

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Re: The "One a day in Tampa Bay" Bomber
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2013, 09:10:09 PM »
So, Earl, what was the best and worst thing in your experience flying the A/B/wiki-26 Marauder/Nimrod/etc back in the day.  How were they to maintain, reliability, etc?   What did pilots like best about it?  I've heard stories of the "26" being able to out run a Mustang in certain circumstances.  Every had a chance to race a Pony in the "26"?   :salute
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 09:24:52 PM by Puma44 »



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Offline earl1937

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Re: The "One a day in Tampa Bay" Bomber
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2013, 07:38:25 AM »
So, Earl, what was the best and worst thing in your experience flying the A/B/wiki-26 Marauder/Nimrod/etc back in the day.  How were they to maintain, reliability, etc?   What did pilots like best about it?  I've heard stories of the "26" being able to out run a Mustang in certain circumstances.  Every had a chance to race a Pony in the "26"?   :salute
:airplane: The 26C was a very good "pilots" aircraft! Very forgiving, easy to fly and if you put the nose down, would accelerate quickly to 380 to 425 IAS. It was a little heavy on the controls and the use of trim was a must to fly it correctly. I don't know about the 26C outrunning a Mustang, but could probably give it a good race. Because of the large vertical stabilizer, it handled very good on one engine and after trimming for single engine flight, other than reduction in airspeed, pretty much flew it like both engines were running. Single engine "go-arounds" at touch down was not to big of a deal, just required a lot of rudder until attaining at least 140 knots IAS. With no ords and 50% fuel or less, it would give you 1,000 or 1200 feet per minute climb on one engine, depending again on what altitude your density altitude was.
When flying close air support, or attacking ground vehicles or boats, was very stable! Heat thermals, which usually bounced around fighters was no problem for the 26C and target focus was not a problem. The "jink" around and up and down to avoid ground ack was a problem, but again, the target was easy to acquire in 3 to 5 seconds of stable flight. After talking to two of my friends who flew the "Nimrods" as they were know in Vietnam, the "gooks" finally had gotten smart and would put up a curtain of 37MM when being attacked, knowing the aircraft would have to fly through and would be damaged. The U.S. lost a lot of the 26K's which were modified 26C's that were flying out of Thailand and Laos, due to the fact that it was closer to the Ho Chi Minh trail, where they were used to attack supply convoys. The vast majority of attacks were carried out at night, with the aid of the "Chandell Stick" C-130's, which would light up the trail for attack. I read somewhere, can't remember where, that at one time, only 22 K's were in country and thru-out the Vietnam conflict, 18 were lost.
Tim Black, one of the famous "Nimrod" pilots, has 5 video's on line, which would tell the story of the Nimrod a lot better than I!

http://napoleon130.tripod.com/id119.html

It was a great aircraft, one what was requested for use in WW2 and saw some service during the latter part of the big war, but saw a lot of action in Korea, (dropped the first and last bombs dropped in that conflict), and along with the 26K Nimrods, saw lots of action in Vietnam.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 08:50:47 AM by earl1937 »
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Offline Shifty

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Re: The "One a day in Tampa Bay" Bomber
« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2013, 08:22:49 AM »
:airplane: OK, split a few hairs!! Let me put it this way then, "This is a pic of the final version of the B-26 series of aircraft, produced by both Martin and Douglas aircraft companies!

(Image removed from quote.)

 I just don't agree with youon the two birds being related.  ;)  :salute
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 08:29:36 AM by Shifty »

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Offline earl1937

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Re: The "One a day in Tampa Bay" Bomber
« Reply #37 on: August 31, 2013, 08:48:12 AM »
I just don't agree with youon the two birds being related.  ;)  :salute
:airplane: Never said they were related! Just the A/B-26 series of aircraft!
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Offline Karnak

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Re: The "One a day in Tampa Bay" Bomber
« Reply #38 on: August 31, 2013, 09:06:26 AM »
:airplane: Never said they were related! Just the A/B-26 series of aircraft!
The word "series" strongly implies that they are related.  In fact so strongly that I cannot understand the reasoning of using the word if they are not related.

The reuse of the B-26 moniker does not indicate any design relationship between the B-26 Marauder, a classic medium bomber, and the A/B-26 Invader, an attack/bomber aircraft.  It is simply reusing a label and nothing more.
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Offline Puma44

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Re: The "One a day in Tampa Bay" Bomber
« Reply #39 on: August 31, 2013, 09:26:40 AM »
Earl, what was the SE service ceiling?  Demonstrated max cross wind limit?  :salute



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Offline Drano

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Re: The "One a day in Tampa Bay" Bomber
« Reply #40 on: August 31, 2013, 10:01:30 AM »
Earl, the military designation of---pick any plane ever--has nothing at all to do with said plane's design or development. It's purely for *their* purposes. THEY hang it on the plane. I'm 1000% positive you've confused the development of the Havoc to the Invader with your version that the Invader was spawned from the Marauder simply because the US military hung the B-26 label on both--and as you've pointed out--clearly for political reasons. So clearly--NOT as some developmental "series" of aircraft by anyone's definition of that. You need to stop digging the hole bro.

I don't buy your "interchangeable parts" argument either. I'm sure there are more than a few parts that are interchangeable between many, many WW2 planes. Surely there were few manufacturers of instruments, weapons, tires, wheels, etc. in order to streamline not only the manufacture but service of the planes (or other weapons of war) in the field. The airframes on the other hand...well...not so much. They're gonna be OEM every time. Don't have to post a gigantic list. Give us a "for instance" that makes sense of your argument if you can. I'm just trying to make sense of it is all. But don't come with something like they used the same wheels and tires so they're part of the same series of aircraft because that's just......wait for it.....not gonna fly. ;)
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Offline earl1937

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Re: The "One a day in Tampa Bay" Bomber
« Reply #41 on: August 31, 2013, 10:56:14 AM »
Earl, what was the SE service ceiling?  Demonstrated max cross wind limit?  :salute
:airplane: Gosh, I only had 44.5 hours in the thing, but best I can remember after 59 years, I think it was 14,300 feet on single engine, or there abouts and the x-wind component was 45 degrees at 30 knots. It had a big rudder and you could really horse the thing around if need be. I always got a kick out of the comments of ATC operators in control towers when I would go somewhere new to shoot a couple of landings and I would request a 360 degree overhead approach. Standard reply was "what kind of aircraft did you say you were? Enter over the runway at 225 knots IAS, set up a 60 degree bank, bleed speed off to 200, pop 20 degrees flaps, MP to 15 inches, close cowl flaps all the way to not cool engines to quickly, bleed speed off to 145 knots on downwind and base, pop 10 more degrees of flaps, gear down on base, bleed speed off to 125 knots on final, apply full down flaps,bleeed speed to 100 approaching end of runway, 90 over the fence and touch-town, apply brankes, open cowl flaps all the way, taxi to terminal building, shut down and eat a cheeseburger and coke, then do it all over again, Woohoo!
Most fun I ever had and almost got into trouble was with a friend of mine who also was going thru training, and we would go to Avon Park bomb range and "rat" race at 200 feet! Heck of thrill, especially if in use with other aircraft flying around and the gunnery range officer busting his fanny to get our tail numbers. Ha! We always located his jeep first and went to the other side of the range. One day, we all got this "nasty-gram" from commander, McDill AFB that anyone caught 'buzzing" live targets in Avon Park would be "Terminated Immediately" Never did understand if he meant shot, or just kicked out of the AF. Ha
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 11:02:17 AM by earl1937 »
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Offline Puma44

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Re: The "One a day in Tampa Bay" Bomber
« Reply #42 on: August 31, 2013, 11:02:08 AM »
:airplane: Gosh, I only had 44.5 hours in the thing, but best I can remember after 59 years, I think it was 14,300 feet on single engine, or there abouts and the x-wind component was 45 degrees at 30 knots. It had a big rudder and you could really horse the thing around if need be. I always got a kick out of the comments of ATC operators in control towers when I would go somewhere new to shoot a couple of landings and I would request a 360 degree overhead approach. Standard reply was "what kind of aircraft did you say you were? Enter over the runway at 225 knots IAS, set up a 60 degree bank, bleed speed off to 200, pop 20 degrees flaps, MP to 15 inches, close cowl flaps all the way to not cool engines to quickly, bleed speed off to 145 knots on downwind and base, pop 10 more degrees of flaps, gear down on base, bleed speed off to 125 knots on final, apply full down flaps,bleeed speed to 100 approaching end of runway, 90 over the fence and touch-town, apply brankes, open cowl flaps all the way, taxi to terminal building, shut down and eat a cheeseburger and coke, then do it all over again, Woohoo!
Wow, sounds like great fun topped off with a cheese burger!   Have  you  ever  had  the  world  famous  Tinker  Burger?



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Offline earl1937

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Re: The "One a day in Tampa Bay" Bomber
« Reply #43 on: August 31, 2013, 11:03:38 AM »
Wow, sounds like great fun topped off with a chees burger!   Have  you  ever  had  the  world  famous  Tinker  Burger?
:airplane: Can't say that I did, but had a bunch of "Tiki Hut" grilled cheese sandwiches!
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Offline Puma44

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Re: The "One a day in Tampa Bay" Bomber
« Reply #44 on: August 31, 2013, 11:29:01 AM »
Earl, in a cockpit photo from somewhere earlier, there is a tall vertical handle to right of center.  What is it?  :salute



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