Author Topic: Mechanism to encourage fighting outnumbered (Read 3172 times)

gyrene81 · « **Reply #15 on:** September 11, 2013, 11:30:00 AM »

fugitive was talking out the side of his head...

for at leat the last 3 years the fight has been "grab moar base we winz de warz"...

Wiley · « **Reply #16 on:** September 11, 2013, 11:40:06 AM »

Quote from: gyrene81 on September 11, 2013, 11:30:00 AM

fugitive was talking out the side of his head... for at leat the last 3 years the fight has been "grab moar base we winz de warz"...

And what works best for grabbing moar base is hording undefended enemy bases. It takes less manpower, time, and effort to retake an undefended base after it's been taken by the enemy than it does to defend the base from the initial base take. Fun be damned.

If someone can figure out how to change the game so that's no longer the case and get players to realize that's how it works now, the game will improve significantly.

Wiley.

Lusche · « **Reply #17 on:** September 11, 2013, 11:46:47 AM »

Quote from: Wiley on September 11, 2013, 11:40:06 AM

And what works best for grabbing moar base is hording undefended enemy bases.

And one of the bigger reasons for that is that all bases count the same towards victory.
Real battles most often happen when the attacker is trying as much as he can to get to a certain 'strategically' important point... capital, production center and so on. While the defender has every reason to do his utmost to prevent that from happening.

Almost no such thing in AH. If you meet resistance, just strike somewhere else, in the end it's only the number of bases that matter. Heck, you don't even really need to defend as long as you grab random bases faster than your enemy. The biggest travesty in this context are the zone bases which trigger the strats retreat - instead of fighting for them nobody really wants to capture them in the first place

Tinkles · « **Reply #18 on:** September 11, 2013, 12:32:53 PM »

Quote from: Lusche on September 11, 2013, 11:46:47 AM

And one of the bigger reasons for that is that all bases count the same towards victory.
Real battles most often happen when the attacker is trying as much as he can to get to a certain 'strategically' important point... capital, production center and so on. While the defender has every reason to do his utmost to prevent that from happening.

Almost no such thing in AH. If you meet resistance, just strike somewhere else, in the end it's only the number of bases that matter. Heck, you don't even really need to defend as long as you grab random bases faster than your enemy. The biggest travesty in this context are the zone bases which trigger the strats retreat - instead of fighting for them nobody really wants to capture them in the first place

Nailed it.

Like i've said in other posts. Would love to see factories, railyards, (trains that were scattered across the map but meant something to bases that they passed by). Etc etc

Not sure on the outnumbered perk in the sense of a fight being 5 to 1. However, for overall country being outnumbered, I agree higher perk multiplers would be nice. Gives an incentive to 'level the playing field'. Also, this pesky 12 hour rule keeps coming up

Tinkles

<<S>>

Wiley · « **Reply #19 on:** September 11, 2013, 01:08:20 PM »

Quote from: Tinkles on September 11, 2013, 12:32:53 PM

Nailed it.

Like i've said in other posts. Would love to see factories, railyards, (trains that were scattered across the map but meant something to bases that they passed by). Etc etc

Not sure on the outnumbered perk in the sense of a fight being 5 to 1. However, for overall country being outnumbered, I agree higher perk multiplers would be nice. Gives an incentive to 'level the playing field'. Also, this pesky 12 hour rule keeps coming up

Tinkles

<<S>>

I think perks are greatly overrated as a motivational tool by many including myself. The vast majority are country loyal. They just won't switch no matter what it seems.

Wiley.

artik · « **Reply #20 on:** September 11, 2013, 01:17:52 PM »

Quote

Re: Mechanism to encourage fighting outnumbered

There is already one in game... YOU DON'T REALLY DIE

In reality if I saw a sworn of 109 over a single Hurricane I would try to run for the life and not try to shoot as many as I can till they get you.

Also I wouldn't pop a I-16 or Zero off the base with 15 enemy mustangs and thunderbolts flying over it.

TDeacon · « **Reply #21 on:** September 11, 2013, 01:22:36 PM »

Quote from: artik on September 11, 2013, 01:17:52 PM

There is already one in game... YOU DON'T REALLY DIE

In reality if I saw a sworn of 109 over a single Hurricane I would try to run for the life and not try to shoot as many as I can till they get you.

Also I wouldn't pop a I-16 or Zero off the base with 15 enemy mustangs and thunderbolts flying over it.

But does it work adequately? Remember, theory is good, but then you always have to test it. You are overlooking the second step, a common failing. (After all, we humans aren't really very logical, are we...).

MH

mechanic · « **Reply #22 on:** September 11, 2013, 01:31:43 PM »

I like any idea that promotes combat. Additionally how about a zone between each field that multiplies perk gain. Perhaps also a reduced perk gain around enemy or frindly bases alike. Then the fights would possibly be more likely to occur in neutral territory rather than around the bases. I think this would do a lot to encourage better furballs.

gyrene81 · « **Reply #23 on:** September 11, 2013, 01:42:18 PM »

change the criteria for win the war and make it impossible for gv's to attack the critical points...you will get your air battles.

thing is, there aren't many people who enjoy flying for 30 minutes only to get picked by a 262 or ho'd by a bunch of spixteen noobs...repeatedly. as much as i enjoy fighting regardless of the outcome, getting picked by the hero in the 262 or ho'd by the hispano noob repeatedly just makes it easier to log off and watch the boob tube.

Tank-Ace · « **Reply #24 on:** September 11, 2013, 02:12:03 PM »

Quote from: TDeacon on September 10, 2013, 09:48:10 PM

TA, if somebody asked you how to fry an egg, and they answered with a description of how to fix a flat tire, what would you say to that? Of course you would say that the tire stuff is useful to know, but you were asking a cooking question. If the person then had a temper tantrum, wouldn't you consider this response to be unreasonable???

TD, Your analogy is about as terrible as your original idea. Really, its about like you asking how best to fry 12 eggs at once, and me telling you to just fill your pan, and make them in more than one batch.

Quote

With respect to the "lemmings" comment, that's what the idea is *supposed to* do. It's supposed to encourage the average player to wade into a fight under unfavorable circumstances. It's supposed to be an antidote to complaints that people will only engage when they have alt, numbers or a better plane. People were complaining in another thread that players no longer want to *fight*. Many threads complain about hording. Oh well, I tried. I don't have a personal axe to grind on this one.. ignore the idea, HTC.

MH

So your idea is SUPPOSED to result in people upping with the intent to be shot down? Its more beneficial for them to up without killing a single person, since it yields more perks.

Frankly, your idea is complete crap. Good intent, but you did not think this through at all.

Now I'm sorry you're not open to alternatives, but per the rules, its perfectly valid for me to post an alternative to your proposed idea. Its still germane to the topic (mechanism(s) to encourage fighting). Really nobody else gets so upset when alternatives are posted in their threads; just keep that in mind.

TDeacon · « **Reply #25 on:** September 11, 2013, 02:31:24 PM »

Quote from: Tank-Ace on September 11, 2013, 02:12:03 PM

TD, Your analogy is about as terrible as your original idea. Really, its about like you asking how best to fry 12 eggs at once, and me telling you to just fill your pan, and make them in more than one batch.

So your idea is SUPPOSED to result in people upping with the intent to be shot down? Its more beneficial for them to up without killing a single person, since it yields more perks.

Frankly, your idea is complete crap. Good intent, but you did not think this through at all.

Now I'm sorry you're not open to alternatives, but per the rules, its perfectly valid for me to post an alternative to your proposed idea. Its still germane to the topic (mechanism(s) to encourage fighting). Really nobody else gets so upset when alternatives are posted in their threads; just keep that in mind.

I can't make people carefully read the OP, nor can I force them to be logical, nor can I prevent them from using insulting language in responses... So post away. Given what you just posted above, however, it is amusing to see that you are accusing me of being "upset"...

MH

Greebo · « **Reply #26 on:** September 11, 2013, 04:12:23 PM »

Don't base it on when you die, but on when you kill. So whenever you get a kill the FE tots up all the red and green icons in view and applies a multiplier to your score for that kill. Lots of red and few green gives a better score for that kill than lots of green and few red. This would give score monkeys a reason to fight hordes rather than joining them and help balance out fights.

Tank-Ace · « **Reply #27 on:** September 11, 2013, 04:17:39 PM »

Quote from: Greebo on September 11, 2013, 04:12:23 PM

Don't base it on when you die, but on when you kill. So whenever you get a kill the FE tots up all the red and green icons in view and applies a multiplier to your score for that kill. Lots of red and few green gives a better score for that kill than lots of green and few red. This would give score monkeys a reason to fight hordes rather than joining them and help balance out fights.

No we can't do that Greebo; its not on topic, even if it is intelligent.

guncrasher · « **Reply #28 on:** September 11, 2013, 04:25:12 PM »

Quote from: Greebo on September 11, 2013, 04:12:23 PM

Don't base it on when you die, but on when you kill. So whenever you get a kill the FE tots up all the red and green icons in view and applies a multiplier to your score for that kill. Lots of red and few green gives a better score for that kill than lots of green and few red. This would give score monkeys a reason to fight hordes rather than joining them and help balance out fights.

you will Get nothing but la7s going for 1 kill auger then repeat. easiest way to perk farm and won't do anything to defend.

semp

Greebo · « **Reply #29 on:** September 11, 2013, 04:40:09 PM »

A lone La-7 diving through a horde is more of a defence than nothing, which is what we are more likely to have at the moment. However I don't think that is what is likely to happen. The type of player who flies for score/rank currently tends to play the percentage game. Attack with an energy or plane advantage, preferably with numbers and run if the situation entails any sort of risk. He has no incentive to up from a threatened base while outnumbered or come in from a nearby field. This would give him a reason to do that. It would also mean that players like me who fly for the fight would be a lot more likely to get one, something other than a 1v4 gangbang that is. You'd probably just get more of the better players coming in with alt from a nearby field in a fast ride to fight the horde.

If a score system is to have any worth it should reward what is difficult and not what is easy. Currently it rewards using a worse plane to shoot down a better one. However killing while outnumbered is often a lot more challenging than killing a better plane, so why not reward it?