Author Topic: SdKfz 251  (Read 16579 times)

Offline lyric1

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Offline lyric1

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Re: SdKfz 251
« Reply #47 on: September 24, 2013, 02:58:43 AM »
This grid pattern is a little different to the others no numbers on it.




http://www.google.de/imgres?um=1&hl=de&biw=1280&bih=613&tbm=isch&tbnid=ZYAc7_LEcJL6OM:&imgrefurl=http://www.fernglasmuseum.at/museum/hensoldt_scherenfernrohr_sf14z/hensoldt_scherenfernrohr_sf14z.html&docid=YjEARkBJKh4JIM&imgurl=http://picsstorage.aupedo.com/aupedolive2/8001111201240003141.jpg&w=800&h=600&ei=3j5BUpbVApP_yQHM3YDwBA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=984&vpy=35&dur=17&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=120.666748046875&ty=123.66667175292969&page=1&tbnh=151&tbnw=235&start=0&ndsp=26&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:0,i:101



http://www.google.de/imgres?start=218&um=1&hl=de&biw=1280&bih=613&tbm=isch&tbnid=od-jiYgGG5GQwM:&imgrefurl=http://at.picclick.com/Scherenfernrohr-bmj-SF14ZGi-H-6400-M-Marine-Optik-350820675169.html&docid=SHOsMXvNcHnu9M&itg=1&imgurl=http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/VQcAAOxyhodRxu05/%2524T2eC16J,!)cE9s4PsMd5BR)u05VWeg~~/Scherenfernrohr-bmj-SF14ZGi-H-6400-M-Marine-Optik_57.jpg&w=800&h=600&ei=UUJBUvLjOaOCyAGYvoHADg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=984&vpy=49&dur=722&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=123.3333740234375&ty=122.33334350585937&page=7&tbnh=142&tbnw=199&ndsp=29&ved=1t:429,r:31,s:200,i:97

http://www.google.de/imgres?start=247&um=1&hl=de&biw=1280&bih=613&tbm=isch&tbnid=q9p8Py9ZwxQ6qM:&imgrefurl=http://de.picclick.com/Carl-Zeiss-Jena-Scherenfernrohr-der-120684363188.html&docid=5n0puwrATa2JqM&itg=1&imgurl=http://s04.trixum.de/upload2/j/D/jDcFHWxdE38C129758100318P1486.jpg&w=531&h=800&ei=UENBUvukBcqCygG504CYDQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=2&vpy=78&dur=264&hovh=276&hovw=183&tx=67.33333587646484&ty=158.6666717529297&page=8&tbnh=156&tbnw=110&ndsp=34&ved=1t:429,r:65,s:200,i:199

Offline lyric1

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Re: SdKfz 251
« Reply #48 on: September 25, 2013, 02:21:27 AM »
Although this is not the 251 model these two pictures give an idea as to how the rabbit ears could be mounted on the 251?
Page 16.









http://www.scribd.com/doc/111990035/1972-Bellona-Handbook-No-2-German-Army-Semi-Tracked-Vehicles-1939-45-Part-2-Light-Armoured-Personnel-Carriers?2=0



Offline Stellaris

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Re: SdKfz 251
« Reply #49 on: September 25, 2013, 10:05:14 AM »
Artillery like this is unlikely to come with a range-finder as standard.  It's an indirect fire weapon, so the procedure would be to survey the battery position onto the map.  Range/bearing information would come from forward observers or even air photographs providing a grid reference, and the firing data would be calculated from that using firing tables which would include adjustments for weather, wind, the earth's rotation, etc.  In my very limited experience, it takes about 30 minutes to survey a gun position, although only about two to crash the guns in and out of action.  Rocket artillery like this, which requires aiming with the whole vehicle and manual adjustment of the firing angle for each rocket, would take considerably longer, and combined with the inherent inaccuracy would be used en-masse (like Katyusha)  Thus it would mostly see use in deliberate attacks where the targets are large, fixed and known well in advance, or deliberate defences where they'd be sited on major (brigade sized) kill zones.

Having said all that, to make the vehicle truly useful in the game, it needs at least to have the ability to have the user adjust the range and some means of estimating it.  Coincidence rangefinders wouldn't likely be part of the battery's standard kit - they'd be off with the forward observers who actually can see the targets.  However the battery would certainly carry binoculars.  All those various graticules lyric1 has put up are just various ways of showing a 10 mil grid.  1 mil is 1 metre across at 1000 metres.  When adjusting fire, you just count the mils from where the shell went off to where you want the next one landing, and multiply by the range in kilometres to get your left/right adjustment.  The range comes from your map and the Mk I eyeball, and you use range-cutting to get on target (adjust by decreasing powers of two, and alternate add/drops to bracket the target).  Or if you know the width of your target in advance (like a hanger say), then you ratio it's width on the ground to its width in mils in your binos, and there's your range.



 


Offline EagleDNY

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Re: SdKfz 251
« Reply #50 on: September 26, 2013, 09:58:08 PM »
SOLD!  +1 on the adjustability of the rocket launcher - having it fixed really nerfs the utility of this vehicle, and it is too nice a job to be left in the hanger all the time.
+1 also on the rabbit ears rangefinders - I have been wishing for something like this for years.


Offline lyric1

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Re: SdKfz 251
« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2013, 01:54:35 AM »
Bump.




Offline bortas1

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Re: SdKfz 251
« Reply #52 on: December 17, 2013, 11:24:41 AM »
 :salute I guess I missed it how do you aim these rockets? in ah I mean.

Offline Tinkles

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Re: SdKfz 251
« Reply #53 on: December 17, 2013, 12:38:59 PM »
:salute I guess I missed it how do you aim these rockets? in ah I mean.

You have to know the trajectory from your position. 

Lets say for a direct hit on a hangar or town building you need to be at 2500 yards or so from that target.  So you get to guess (unless you have really dead-accurate memory) how far that distance is.

Right now we have no way of knowing how far we are from the target (no aiming system) unless you use trial and error.
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Offline icepac

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Re: SdKfz 251
« Reply #54 on: December 17, 2013, 12:48:35 PM »
How many of those are needed to take down a hangar at this time?

I remember doing some testing and it seems they fire further when stationary than while moving.

Maybe the vehicle noses down at speed?,.......not sure.

Offline lyric1

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Re: SdKfz 251
« Reply #55 on: December 17, 2013, 01:11:38 PM »
How many of those are needed to take down a hangar at this time?

I remember doing some testing and it seems they fire further when stationary than while moving.

Maybe the vehicle noses down at speed?,.......not sure.

In real life when they fired these there was no crew inside of them. They were just an artillery piece when firing rockets & were stationary when they did.

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: SdKfz 251
« Reply #56 on: December 17, 2013, 02:22:50 PM »
How many of those are needed to take down a hangar at this time?

I remember doing some testing and it seems they fire further when stationary than while moving.

Maybe the vehicle noses down at speed?,.......not sure.

well.... if the German 28cm Wurfkorper rockets do 280 lbs of damage to OBJ's, and a hanger has a hardness of 2781 lbs.....

If you're accelerating the vehicle has a steeper pitch thereby launching the rockets a wee bit further.  Likewise, if the vehicle is braking the impacts will be much close and I do not advise such things, it is easier than you might think to blow yourself up.  The 28cm rockets have impressive splash damage.  If the vehicle is moving at a constant speed on a complete flat surface then there will be no difference.  The problem is the fixed angles in which the rockets can currently be fired.   
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Offline MachNix

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Re: SdKfz 251
« Reply #57 on: December 17, 2013, 04:30:23 PM »
If the vehicle is moving at a constant speed on a complete flat surface then there will be no difference.

I think it was Lusche that wrote that the range is shortened when driving forward because the "wind" causes the rocket to weathervane downward into a lower, shorter trajectory.  Backing up has the opposite effect and the rocket will go farther.   I believe I tried this at the time and found it to be true.

Offline lyric1

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Re: SdKfz 251
« Reply #58 on: April 09, 2014, 12:37:23 AM »
An actual view though a range finder on the Russian front during WWII.


Offline Lusche

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Re: SdKfz 251
« Reply #59 on: April 09, 2014, 04:40:19 AM »
I think it was Lusche that wrote (...)


I think that wasn't him  :old:
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