Author Topic: WWII Facts  (Read 3795 times)

Offline DaveBB

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Re: WWII Facts
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2013, 11:50:39 AM »
Weren't half of all Lancasters shot down?
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Offline Scherf

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Re: WWII Facts
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2013, 08:50:56 PM »
More or less, 45% or so lost on ops according to:

http://www.lancaster-archive.com/index-no%20fund%20rasier.htm
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline GScholz

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Re: WWII Facts
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2013, 10:28:42 PM »
In 1943 the Luftwaffe destroyed the entire 8th AF three times over. Piecemeal of course, and the reinforcements kept pace. However, after losing 20% of their force in the second Schweinfurt–Regensburg mission in October the 8th withdrew from Germany for almost half a year until adequate escort could be provided.
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Offline DaveBB

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Re: WWII Facts
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2013, 01:47:44 PM »
The Luftwaffe calculated that it would only lose 1 aircraft for every 3 bombers shot down when attacking unescorted heavy bombers.  Aerial gunnery from bombers was a fatally flawed concept.  One author, who's name I can't remember, even said that no aircraft were ever shot down by the hand-held guns of American heavy bombers (waist, radio room, nose guns).  The turrets were only marginally better.  Someone posted a chart years ago showing the dispersion of the bullets from each turret of a B17 and B24.  20 mils at 500 yards for the B17s tail gun.  The conversion in feet was around a ~40 diameter I believe. 

A post-war study showed that speed was the key to success for both bombers and fighter escorts.  The faster a bomber was, the less likely it was to get shot down.  The escort fighters had to be faster than the intercepting fighters, or they would be useless.  A key example of this is F-86s escorting B29s into North Korea.  F-86 was basically the same speed as the Mig-15.  It couldn't stop them from shooting down the B29s, and daylight raids with B29s over North Korea were stopped.
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Offline FLOOB

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Re: WWII Facts
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2013, 02:22:20 PM »
Yep. That's why Lemay had gunners and guns removed from b29s when bombing Japan, less weight and less men lost. Tony Williams said in this forum something to the effect that the most accurate way to model buff defensive guns was to load them all with blanks. I don't remember the figure exactly but the number of rounds expended from gunner positions per kill was over one hundred thousand rounds. And yet the plane with the most kills in the bob scenario isn't the spit or the 109, it's the ju88 with its mighty 7.7mm hand fired mg.
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: WWII Facts
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2013, 02:53:37 PM »

The first American serviceman killed was killed by the Russians ( Finland 1940)



The first US serviceman killed in WW2 was Captain Robert Moffat Lose and he was killed in Norway, not Finland.  He was killed by bomb shrapnel while seeking refuge in a railway tunnel as the Luftwaffe was bombing the town.  He was in Norway to help evacuate US embassy personnel to Sweden.

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Offline Changeup

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Re: WWII Facts
« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2013, 05:10:00 PM »
The first US serviceman killed in WW2 was Captain Robert Moffat Lose and he was killed in Norway, not Finland.  He was killed by bomb shrapnel while seeking refuge in a railway tunnel as the Luftwaffe was bombing the town.  He was in Norway to help evacuate US embassy personnel to Sweden.

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Offline Brooke

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Re: WWII Facts
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2013, 12:30:06 AM »
Most soviets were not Russian.

I think that most Soviets were Russian (as I think Russia had a lot more population than Belarus, Ukraine, etc.).  The percentage of Ukrainians (etc.) in the Red Army might have been boosted by conscription, but I suspect that the Red Army still had more Russians than people from non-Russian parts of the Soviet Union.  Here, I'm talking about Russia as part of the Soviet Union sort of as New York as part of the USA (i.e., a region of the entity that was the Soviet Union).

However, I think that more Ukrainians and Belarusians died in WWII than Russians.

Offline black

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Re: WWII Facts
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2013, 01:16:33 AM »
1)   London and Baghdad: What do they have common? Both are the only cities that have been attacked by ballistics and cruise missiles.
2)   B-25 played an important roll in the PTO, MTO and ETO and suffer a lot of loss. However, the B-25 is also know as a robust, reliable bomber to take a beating and still flying.  Case example with 321st Bomb Group. One B-25C name "Patches" completed over 300 missions and has the scares to show it "literally". It had six belly landings, and over 400 patched holes from flak. The airframe was so bent out of shape that to fly straight and level the pilot had to set aileron trim 8 degree left and right rudder 6 degree. Should mention that the crew chief painted every patch hole with zinc chromite primer giving it’s name "Patches".
3)   HMS Venturer (P68) was the first and only submarine to engage and destroy another submarine (U-846) while both fully submerge under water. At the same time, the wreckage of U-846 remained as a war grave and one of the worst environmental disaster in the Baltic sea. U-846's cargo included approximately 61 tones of metallic mercury in 1,857 71 lb steel flasks stored in her keel. It is estimated approximately 8.8 lbs of mercury is leaking per year into the aquatic environment.
4)   The class of 1915: West Point. Know as " the class that stars fell on", 61 of the 164 men held the rank of general.
5)   By war's end, Polish military unites fought under four flags: Great Britian, Poland, France, and Russia.
6)   An Syrian brown bear name Wojtek was the first and only bear to be enlisted in the military and saw action. He was assigned to the Polish 22nd artillery Supply Company of the Polish II Corps as privet. His duty was to carried artillery shells during the Battle of Monte Cassino. The 22nd company was given approval of an effigy of a bear holding an artillery shell as the official emblem.
7)   The first German bomb to fall on Leningrad killed the only elephant in the city zoo.  Sigh, sigh.
8)   Paratroops:  Russian the first country to formed units, Germany the first country to used them in battle and America perfected it in battle.
9)   The only country that Germany declared war on was U.S.
10)   Chemical weapons: Some countries, like Japan and Germany, used chemical weapons as test or on civilians, but never in battle. Most countries had stockpiles on the front line ready to be used, but nobody did not want to.
11)   The oldest warship casualty of WWII was the H.M.S Victory (1765) received a direct hit from a 500 lbs German bomb in the Battle of Britian.
12)   Why no U.S Mariens in the ETO? This goes back to WWI, in the Battle of Belleau Wood, June 1-26, 1918. 1st Battalion, 5th Marines saw German forces punched a hole in the French lines to the left of the Marines' position. They responded quickly and in 26 days later defeated the Germans. The marines had so much publicity from the U.S, Britian, France and Germany that the U.S. Army was nearly forgotten.
Moving forwarded to WWII: When the U.S. enter the war, top Army staff did not want the U.S Mariens to gain fame so they make sure that the Army was going to defeat Germay on their own. Even though the Army had got the publicity in the successful Normany invasion, Mariena once again gain great publicity and the most icon pitcher of WWII. Note: other reasons for no Marines was do to number of Marines that they could not fight on both fronts.
13)   Besides the 332 FG there are other military units that were all blacks that served and saw combat action:
761st Tank Battalion - (Unit that Jack Robison served on) ETO
366th Infantry Regiment - MTO/ETO
369th Infantry Regiment - PTO
370th Infantry Regiment - MTO
371st Infantry Regiment - MTO
10th Cavalry Regiment - The original Buffol Solders- replacements for 92nd Infantry Division
555th Parachute Infantry Battalion - never saw any action but to reconized as the only all black parachute infantry.
USS Mason (DE-529) (Evarts-class destroyer escort) - all black except seniors officers where white. ETO
USS PC-1264 was a PC-461-class submarine chaser -
14)    German where the first country to used air drones as recon.
15)   Captain Paul Hall's P-47D Thunderbolt fighter 'Dixie Gal' of 57th Fighter Group, US 64th Fighter Squadron, made an attack run on a German tank. Mis-judge his altitude, his P-47 bounce off the ground infleciting damage to all four props (all badly bent back), but not the engine. The P-47 flew 150 mile back to an air strip and landed successfully.
16)   There were over 150 different designations of Bf- 190s, but some never went into combat. These include Ta-152.
17)   Number of German Generals killed in WWII:  General = 1; Lieutenant General = 19; Major General = 55; Brigadier General = 61. 
18)   The top 112 fighter aces of WWII were all Germans. Only two got over 300 kills.
19)   First non-German fighter ace was Ilmari Juutilainen with 94.
20)   Ivan Kozhedub, Russian's highest fighter ace and top fighter ace of Allies, shot down 62 Germans and believe to kill two P-51.
21)   Remy Van Lierde, British top fighter ace, was credit with 50 kills, 44 of them were V1's.
22)   Lydia Litvak; Russia, top female fighter ace to date with 12 kills.
23)   Hans-Ulrich Rudel, Germany's top stuka pilot; flew 2,530 combat missions claiming a total of 2,000 targets destroyed; including 800 vehicles, 519 tanks, 150 artillery pieces, 70 landing craft, nine aircraft, 4 armored trains, several bridges, a destroyer, two cruisers, and the Soviet battleship Marat. Never shot down by another plane, but crashed land from flack 32 times. Few times behind enemy line.
24)   The highest (altitude) air to air kill: ETO - On 12 September 1942- Emanuel Galitzine intercepted a Ju-86R at 43,000  in the spitfire. Never shot the Ju down, but did fire at and made contact to force the Ju-86 back to France. PTO - F4U intercept a Ki-47 at 48,000 feet. Ack-Ack knows more about this story, please fill in on it.

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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: WWII Facts
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2013, 04:03:33 AM »
The Winter War between Finland and ussr ended march 1940, in June 1940 a US Foriegn Service clerk, not a serviceman, died when the transport he was on blew up inflight. Has it been determined that the soviets were responsible, and if so how was it determined that the soviets responsible were Russian?

Uh, who cares. They shot down a passenger plane during the peace time. They were operating under the red star so they were generally called by a derogatory word twisted from the Swedish word 'ryssen' which means 'a russian'.
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Offline FLOOB

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Re: WWII Facts
« Reply #40 on: September 24, 2013, 11:12:27 AM »
Uh, who cares. They shot down a passenger plane during the peace time. They were operating under the red star so they were generally called by a derogatory word twisted from the Swedish word 'ryssen' which means 'a russian'.
They did? Fascinating yet almost relevant.

I think demographically less than half of the population of the ussr was ethnically russian. The USSR was a huge empire of many languages and even religions, from the christian western oblasts to the buddhist eastern oblasts and the central islamic oblasts. I don't know how many languages were spoken in the ussr but if you looked it up I wouldn't be surprised if it was more than twenty.
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: WWII Facts
« Reply #41 on: September 24, 2013, 05:13:25 PM »
The Luftwaffe calculated that it would only lose 1 aircraft for every 3 bombers shot down when attacking unescorted heavy bombers.  Aerial gunnery from bombers was a fatally flawed concept.  One author, who's name I can't remember, even said that no aircraft were ever shot down by the hand-held guns of American heavy bombers (waist, radio room, nose guns).  The turrets were only marginally better.  Someone posted a chart years ago showing the dispersion of the bullets from each turret of a B17 and B24.  20 mils at 500 yards for the B17s tail gun.  The conversion in feet was around a ~40 diameter I believe. 



I called that bs.  of all the thousands of sorties flown by bombers, you mean to tell me not one fighter got shot down?  even the odds say that at least one would have been shot down.


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Offline DaveBB

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Re: WWII Facts
« Reply #42 on: September 24, 2013, 05:31:46 PM »
Yeah, the hand-held guns (not the turreted guns) of American heavy bombers probably never shot down an enemy aircraft. 

The only account I can think of that comes close is Saburo Sakai (sic) getting shot in the eye by an SBD gunner.  But that is more of a manually operated turret rather than a flexible pintle gun.

The firing window was extremely short (tenths of a second).  The cone of fire was small.  And the amount of firepower of a single .50 caliber was not significant in that short amount of time.  And if all those conditions were right, one of the turreted gun stations on a bomber would have a much higher probability of kill than the pintle gun (though both pKs were criminally low.
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Offline Brooke

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Re: WWII Facts
« Reply #43 on: September 24, 2013, 06:03:05 PM »
"Against 20 Russians trying to shoot you down or even 20 Spitfires, it can be exciting, even fun. But curve in towards 40 fortresses and all your past sins flash before your eyes."  -- Hans Philipp

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: WWII Facts
« Reply #44 on: September 24, 2013, 06:20:06 PM »

8)   Paratroops:  Russian the first country to formed units, Germany the first country to used them in battle and America perfected it in battle. I Know the British would argue differently.  ;)

16)   There were over 150 different designations of Bf- 190s, but some never went into combat. These include Ta-152.  VERY interesting...

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